Australia, this is Peter Little of the Community Radio Network with
“Cover-to-Cover”… and on the line from somewhere in Europe, we have
Tony Bushby, author of a very controversial book called
The Bible Fraud…. G’day
TB: Good morning Peter. How are you today?
PL: Well, thanks Tony. But let’s get into this by asking… Who
is Tony Bushby?
TB: Well Peter, I guess the simplest thing I could say is
that I’m an Australian who has spent around about thirty years of my
life in the publishing industry and, during that time, I researched
and wrote quite a few high quality specialist magazines for the
Australian and New Zealand markets. That took many years of my life
and I had a lot of fun with that… publishing and writing.
PL: What prompted you to write The Bible Fraud,
TB: Well, during my course of publishing magazines, I did a
lot of international research on Near Death Experience, which
fascinated me, and I spoke to over 500 people worldwide who had been
revived from clinical death. I published a quality color magazine on
the subject called “Glimpses of Life Beyond Death.”
Some of these people’s stories, Peter, were extraordinary and one
particular lady came to see me. She was quite an elderly lady…
probably in her early seventies and she had a Near Death Experience.
She had fallen down with a heart attack at the front door and the
neighbors over the road saw her collapse and rang the ambulance and
she was taken away and revived. She came back and then she couldn’t
explain what happened to her… this wonderful experience where she
was reunited with her Mum and Dad who had been deceased for quite
So she went to see her priest and he told her that this experience
really didn’t happen and that she had been tempted by the
Devil because Jesus wasn’t there to meet her. This lady
was quite mentally perturbed because she had this experience and she
just didn’t know what happened to her. So the Church teachings and
her actual experience conflicted and she was on the verge of
We had a good talk together and she actually really stressed the
point that somebody should go out and tell the world that what
happens when you die is not what the Church tells you what happens.
She got me thinking about the Bible, which led me into some deeper
research, and I came to a series of conclusions that seriously
conflicted with the actual Church teachings… and that of course, led
me into deeper research. Hence today… The Bible Fraud… which is the
first of a series of three books about the Bible.
PL: This took how many years to research? I have got a figure
down here saying twelve years. That sounds extraordinary!
TB: Yes well, it actually was Peter. It was twelve years full
time and there was quite a few years leading up to it. Some of those
years… five thousand hours, one hundred hours a week is not really
enough and during that time, I had some extraordinary experiences in
being introduced to wonderful, old archival libraries and some
extraordinary material that is not freely available to the public…
in fact at one stage, I actually lived in an old archival library
for ten weeks and slept on a mattress on the floor.
PL: You didn’t find any discomfort in all that, I suppose?
TB: I loved every minute of it.
PL: Now, these private archives that you talk about, where
are they located?
TB: Well, most places around the world seem to have an old
library that nobody seems to want to use. In London, one old lady
had seven hundred and sixty-three Bibles hidden away in her closets.
In New Zealand, there are some wonderful old archival libraries in
private collections that came out from England many years ago and
are never used. It’s quite sad to see these books locked away like
PL: Also I imagine you were able to tap into some of the
Church libraries around the world… the religious libraries.
TB: They do have what they call their Manuscript
Divisions and I was lucky enough to get into some of those
and also the Rare Manuscripts Division of the British Museum.
They have a massive collection of old writings and old manuscripts
and also the Alexandrian Library in Egypt. They have got over
one hundred thousand rare manuscripts in their vaults.
PL: You can access those without much trouble?
TB: You can with the right approach. Yes, most certainly.
PL: With the right connections I suppose?
TB: Not so much connections. If you are a genuine bona
fide researcher, they will get you in.
PL: So what do you hope to accomplish with the book, Tony?
TB: Well, I seem to think I have got onto some information
that hasn’t been freely available Peter, and publishing this book
provides for another side to the story regarding the origins of
Christianity and that story is a different story to that presented
by the Churches. So we have got out there a public record with this
information available for people to add to or do their own research
or take it or leave it… whatever they like.
PL: Having had read the book, it would appear that the New
Testament story of Jesus Christ is, in your interpretation,
TB: Well, I would have to say straight up, Peter that
it’s a forgery in its entirety and is knowingly
presented by the Church falsely. They know there are forged
passages in it and they come out quite clearly and state that. So my
position is to point out those fabrications and forgeries and see if
we can get down to what really happened in the origins of the story
of Jesus Christ.
PL: The thing that I also found confronting is you saying
that the Virgin Mary had seven children.
TB: Well, what I’m actually saying there Peter is….. I don’t
necessarily say that. The Gospels say that. The
older the Gospels you use, the more clearly it is
presented. The Church’s own Gospels state that she had seven
children and one of those boys was called Judas Thomas.
Now, he was the brother of Jesus as was James. Thomas was an
Aramaic word for “Twin”… Tomas meaning “Twin”. So Judas was
a twin and he is often called “Judas the Twin” in some variations of
the Gospels. He is the twin brother of the person we know today as
Jesus Christ. This fact is conveniently overlooked by many of the
So in the story in
The Bible Fraud,
we have actually unraveled the whole life stories of both the boys:
One became a Rabbi -
who is Rabbi Jesus - and the other became rather a wild drinking
man - who is Judas Thomas the Twin. They had two entirely
When you read the New
Testament, Peter with that understanding, it accounts for all the
contradictions and all the problems within it.
PL: Just to recap, you are saying Jesus had a twin brother,
that Mary the mother of Jesus had a number of children and all these
things are clearly explained in your book The Bible Fraud.
TB: Yes, it’s fully unraveled.
PL: Did I hear correctly you saying that the Church
authorities or elders are fully aware of this and are not
prepared to verify that?
TB: Yes, that’s right. They actually make these statements
quite plain and clear in not so much the modern encyclopedias but in
their old editions. The 1907 Catholic Encyclopedia
clearly stated that the virgin birth narratives are fourth
century fictitious editions to earlier writings. This is
quite disturbing really because this is one of the tenants to
Christianity and they are actually telling us in writing that it
didn’t really happen.
PL: It terms of the whole virgin birth story…. I picked up in
the book that the mother of Jesus was in fact part of the nobility.
TB: That’s right. In the oldest Gospel, she is written down
with the name as Mariamne. Now,
Mariamne was the granddaughter of King Herod. In fact, she
was his favorite granddaughter and she was of bloodline. It appears,
from the scanty records available, that she was raped by a Roman
archer and his nickname was “The Panther.” This man later
became the Emperor of Rome in 14AD. He was Tiberius who was
the adopted son of Emperor Augustus.
Mariamne bore the twins and they were hidden away for
a while in the House of Augustus. They were both quite clearly of
royal blood and we see in the Gospels itself where Jesus is called
King over thirty times yet records of history never record Jesus as
being King. We found an old record in our research that those twin
boys were actually brought up in the House of Augustus.
Because Augustus and the twelve first Caesars were deified, these
twin boys were called the “Sons of God”. That was
quite correct in the traditions of the day. They were technically
the “Sons of God” because, after these Roman emperors died, they
were deified. They were classed as gods and holidays were held for
them and these boys were the “Sons of God” in the technical sense of
PL: You are saying these two boys… one was a man of the
cloth, a Rabbi and the other was a bit of a lad, was he?
TB: One was a bit of a lad. One was esoteric. He adopted a
spiritual understanding and belief and he became the Rabbi.
The other fellow was exoteric. He became a very earthly man and he
was the one who ordered his followers to buy swords. They were
drinking men and they were pretty wild boys. So these two boys went
their own ways. One became responsible indirectly for the King
James Bible and the other became responsibly indirectly for
the Roman Catholic Bible. One went east and one went
west and this is where we get the two variations in the Bibles used
in churches today.
PL: This is fascinating stuff. It is all revealed there in
the book. I can talk about this for a long time with you Tony. Let’s
keep going because, if you are prepared for a few more minutes to
discuss this, we’ll keep going.
TB: OK, right.
PL: Are you happy about that?
PL: Great stuff. Well, in the book, the death of Jesus is not
as we have been led to believe either. Is that what you are saying
in the book?
TB: That’s exactly right. The two boys had their own lives.
The wild, fighting man, Judas the
Twin… he was actually arrested. He marched on Rome with a large
group of warriors. He went to see his father, who was then the
Emperor Tiberius and he wanted his royal right to be the Emperor
of Rome. He was actually betrayed by Judas Iscariot,
who was an infiltrator from the Roman army. Judas the Twin
was captured and charged. He was the one to be crucified
because he had marched on Rome and he had been caught and this was
seen as an overthrow so he was to be crucified.
Because of his royal birthright… he was first born… he had the right
to order a substitute to take his punishment. This is a very ancient
tradition that goes way, way back to the Egyptian times where a
royal person could order a substitute to take the punishment. So a
person called Simon of Cyrene… we read about him in the
Gospels… he was pulled in off the street.
PL: He picked up the cross.
TB: That’s right. He was punished. He was the one crucified.
PL: He was the one crucified, was he? He just didn’t pick up
the cross and carry it?
TB: That’s him. That’s recorded in the Gospels. He was
crucified in place of Judas the Twin. Now, because Judas
the Twin had given up his birthright by saving his own life, he was
then sold into slavery. He was shipped off to India and there is a
tomb there in Kashmir today, which we believe to be
the actual tomb of the twin of Jesus. Now, because Rabbi Jesus
and his family were involved in overthrow and the crucifixion…
PL: This is the good bloke now we are talking about?
TB: Yes, he was the Rabbi. He was there. He was at the scene.
He and his family were banished from Rome and they were set adrift
in a ship. They drifted ashore in the south of France at
Marseilles and they trekked overland to England and they settled
at the place we now know as Glastonbury. That was the
start of the origin of the British Church, which preceded the origin
of the Roman Catholic Church by some three hundred years. One went
to England and one went to India.
PL: So you say the Celtic Church…
TB: Yes, that was actually in operation when Rabbi Jesus
arrived there. He became an honorary Druid… he was actually
initiated into the Druidic belief.
PL: Tony, that being the case, is it possible to follow the
present royal bloodline back to Jesus?
TB: It is, Peter. It’s quite complex. Jesus at one
stage was married to Mary Magdalene… she was, from the old
records, a Celtic princess… and, from their union, came a certain
bloodline. Later on, one of Jesus’ sons was named Caradoc…
he was married to two Roman princesses of the line of Claudius. So,
the bloodline is in there. It’s quite a complex issue to trace it
back but it can be traced right down to today.
PL: Of the current British monarch?
TB: Well, they properly call it the European bloodline.
PL: OK. Right… and the book goes right through that. So
somebody who wants to painstakingly go through with a paper and
pencil can do the whole program right through to…?
TB: They can. The family bloodline trees are recorded in the
book and it tells the story of the two boys, who they married, where
their families went to and how the families ended up. It goes right
down to the first Christian Council… which was in 325 AD… which was
called by a bloodline family member of the twin boys. He was
Constantine and he was responsible for the very first Christian
PL: Constantine… he was the same bloke that started
Constantinople, wasn’t he?
TB: He was there. That’s him. He named Constantinople after
himself and he was of the same blood as the twin boys, Rabbi
Jesus and Judas the Twin. He called the first council
meeting at Nicaea and actually brought their two life
stories together as one and then officially deified those two boys
into one. He then instructed the old Bishops of the day to
write fifty New Testaments… in mankind’s recorded
history, the first New Testaments weren’t written until 325 AD.
He ordered the actual construction of fifty versions. That’s when
the New Testament really started at the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD.
PL: Was this motivated by some political advantage or social
unrest at the time?
TB: Well, mainly to keep his family bloodline in the Church
and he could see a problem there… there was talk amongst the old
Churchmen of Jesus was having two natures. The problem was they had
the two twin boys mixed up so he deified them both as one and
combined both parts of their name and they became Jesus Christ.
So it’s quite a complex story.
PL: It certainly is!
TB: When you read the New Testament in that light… with two
stories interwoven into one… it answers all the conflictions that
PL: Talking about the research…. and this is extraordinary
research you have done there, Tony… I believe you once held the
world’s oldest Bible, which is the Sinai Bible, in
your hands. What was that like?
TB: It was quite an overwhelming experience actually. It was
quite… I was quite emotional and this Bible is in the British Museum
or today in the British Library. It’s on display. It’s
been carbon dated to around about 380 - 390 AD. It’s written on the
skin of animals. It’s in a humidor where it’s kept at a certain
temperature and, quite honestly, it stinks when you open it… it’s
written in an old Greek language which is now what we call a dead
language. There was a story in the British Museum that people told
me that Howard Hughes, the famous American multi-millionaire,
once offered twenty-five million US dollars for that Bible and they
wrote back one and a half lines to him saying this Bible belongs to
the people of Planet Earth and would never be for sale.
It was a very emotional experience. It was very heavy… it’s mainly
the Old and New Testaments in full but part of the Old
Testament is missing… a small part. Right next to it in the
British Library today is the second oldest Bible, which is the
Alexandrian Bible. These are very valuable old documents
and that’s the closest Bible we have got to the story of Jesus
PL: Not one you could sit down and read peacefully.
TB: Not a bedtime read, Peter, that’s for sure.
PL: Well, Tony what is your response to those who say we can
believe the Bible because it’s the word of God?
TB: I would say they should really do their own research
because the Bible is not the word of God… it’s the word of Man.
It actually quotes that in the Bible itself. It’s been edited
and re-edited and restructured and it is a fabrication in its
entirety. I’m talking about the New Testament
here and the story of Jesus. The Churchmen know this and anybody who
disbelieves should do a little bit of their own research… quite
simple research and they should do it.
They can do it quite easily… their own personal confirmation. All
they have got to do Peter, is compare any of the five oldest Bibles
in the world with any modern day Bible and they will see that there
are fourteen thousand, eight hundred changes to the
new Bibles today.
Some of those changes are major sections of writing… like there
were no resurrection versions in the old Bibles for example.
No virgin birth in the old Bibles. In all the old Bibles… all
the old Gospels in the Bibles… the story of Jesus Christ starts when
he is at the age of thirty and anything preceding that is a later
addition in later Bibles. In the oldest Gospel available to us
today, the story of Jesus ends when the tomb was found
empty and the body removed. This was the body of Simon of
Cyrene. Today’s Bibles will show another twelve verses after
that where it talks about a resurrection.
PL: There have been many books in recent times that claim to
reveal the truth about Jesus and a hidden code in the Bible.
What makes this book different?
TB: Well, firstly, this book unravels the whole story of the
twin boys… that’s the main thing. The Church says there is only one
but they actually know there were two. Both their life
stories accumulate into one ending, which is the deification of
The other books have touched on one boy or Jesus they thought
being in India but that was actually the other boy… so when you work
out where they both went and overlay it, you can see exactly how
they started Christianity.
PL: What about yourself in terms of lecture tours and things,
Tony? You have a fascinating story to tell there and it’s been a
very interesting interview. Have you got any thoughts about a public
appearance or lecture tours?
TB: I probably will later on, Peter. I’ve got another
manuscript nearing completion, which I want to get out first… then
I’ll probably start talking to people.
PL: Now, you have a website which I’ve checked out already.
It’s very revealing… in fact, much of what we have discussed today
is also on the website (www.thebiblefraud.com)
and my guest today has been Tony Bushby. When you read the
book, it will certainly raise questions in your mind about your
belief systems… of Christian values and things that one has learnt
over the years and fire up a quest for the truth. I certainly
recommend people get a hold of the book The Bible Fraud
by Tony Bushby. It’s available now… and I guess, Tony that
there is full detail on The Bible Fraud dot com website about
how to purchase that particular book.
TB: That’s right Peter. And the website has recently been
updated, so it’s got all the newest
information on it and that’s where they can buy their own personal
copy and they can…
PL: Make some informed discussions from that.
TB: That’s right. Decide for themselves whether it’s right or
PL: Well, Tony. It’s been fascinating talking to you. Thanks
very much for your time and, folks, make sure you get a copy of this
truly sensational book by Tony Bushby… it’s
The Bible Fraud published by
The Pacific Blue Group and now available in all good book