by Rick Martin
The SPECTRUM newspaper’s Front Page
It has often been said that the Native Elders of any given tribe
hold the keys to knowledge. This statement has never been more
clearly confirmed than in the recent interview I had the great
privilege to conduct with Zulu “Sanusi” (Shaman) Credo Mutwa, now
nearing eighty years of age.
Through the efforts and assistance of
David Icke, I was able to
establish contact with Dr. Johan Joubert, who graciously coordinated
with Credo Mutwa, thus allowing the interview to take place by
telephone, literally half-way around the world in South Africa. We
at The SPECTRUM would like to convey our deepest appreciation to
both David Icke and to Dr. Joubert for their selfless efforts at
getting this man’s Truth out to the world.
I first heard about Credo Mutwa five years ago, only at that time it
didn’t seem possible to speak with him directly by telephone, as he
lives in a somewhat remote area with no phone. When I heard from
David Icke that he had spent time with Credo Mutwa and that he would
be willing to speak with The SPECTRUM, well, that’s all it took.
Through the wonder of the international telephone lines, on August
13 we had what turned out to be a 4-hour session! And no, we are not
about to pare it down to “sound bite” size. The words he has spoken
will appear completely and in full context, as is our usual policy-a
matter of respect for the speaker as well as simply being good,
Credo Mutwa is a man whom David Icke describes as: “The most amazing
and knowledgeable man it has been my privilege and honor to call a
friend, a genius.” After speaking with Credo Mutwa, I couldn’t agree
I would like to comment that Credo Mutwa, while not a man of formal
education, was kind enough and conscientious enough to spell all of
the Zulu or African words, proper names, etc. for this article.
Those of you who may be African scholars will find this level of
accuracy more advantageous to your research than will the average
reader, however such care taken by Credo is yet another facet of his
honesty and precision.
If you feel that you have read some material lately that stretches
your thinking and challenges some belief systems, this interview
will take you one step beyond. As always, Truth is stranger than
fiction. As well, Truth-or pieces of Truth revealed to any one of
us-are part of a larger mosaic, and thus it is up to each of us to
arrive at our own conclusions concerning the Truth that others have
to share with us.
We are honored to have this opportunity to present Credo Mutwa’s
experiences and knowledge with you. It is a most rare and much
The astonishing information presented by Credo Mutwa is certainly
thought provoking and far-reaching in both implications and scope.
Once you read this information you will more readily understand why
there have been attempts to silence him. Similarly, you will more
deeply appreciate Credo’s courage for coming forth and speaking
truth, no matter the consequences to self.
So, without further introductory commentary, let the interview
Martin: First of
all, let me say it is an honor and a privilege to speak with
you, and I would like to thank and acknowledge David Icke and
Dr. Joubert, without whose help we would not be having this
Our readers are aware of the existence of the shape-shifting
reptilian extraterrestrials, and what I would like to discuss
with you concerns the specifics of their presence, their
leadership, their agenda, and their methods of operation at this
So, the first question I would like to ask you is: Can you
confirm that shape-shifting reptilian extraterrestrials do, in
fact, exist on our planet at this time? And if they do, if you
can confirm this, will you please be specific about them. Where
do they come from?
Credo Mutwa: Sir, can your newspaper send people to Africa?
Martin: I’m sorry, can you repeat that?
Credo Mutwa: Can your newspaper kindly send somebody to Africa
in the near future?
Martin: We are financially not able to do that at this time, but
that may change in the future.
Credo Mutwa: Because there are some things that I would, please,
like your newspaper to check-out, independent of me. You have
heard of the country called Rwanda, in Central Africa?
Credo Mutwa: The people of Rwanda, the Hutu people, as well as
the Watusi people, state, and they are not the only people in
Africa who state this, that their very oldest ancestors were a
race of beings whom they called the Imanujela, which means “the
Lords who have come”. And some tribes in West Africa, such as a
Bambara people, also say the same thing. They say that they came
from the sky, many, many generations ago, a race of highly
advanced and fearsome creatures which looked like men, and they
call them Zishwezi. The word Zishwezi means the dival or the
glidal-creatures that can glide down from the sky or glide
Everybody, sir, has heard about
the Dogon people in Western
Africa who all say that they were given culture by the normal
beings, but they are no t- the Dogon people are but ONE of many,
many peoples in Africa who claim that their tribe or their king
were first founded by the supernatural race of creatures that
came from the sky.
Are you still with me, sir?
Martin: Oh yes, very much so. Please continue.
Credo Mutwa: Sir, I can go on and on, but let me bring
you to my people, the Zulu people of South Africa.
Credo Mutwa: The Zulu people, who are famous as a warrior
people, the people to whom King Shaka Zulu, of the last century,
belonged. When you ask a South African White anthropologist what
the name of Zulu means, he will say it means “the sky”
(laughter), and therefore the Zulu call themselves “people of
the sky”. That, sir, is non-sense. In the Zulu language, our
name for the sky, the blue sky, is sibakabaka. Our name for
inter-planetary space, however, is izulu and the
means “inter-planetary space, the dark sky that you see with
stars in it every night”, also has to do with traveling, sir.
The Zulu word for traveling at random, like a nomad or a gypsy,
Now, you can see that the Zulu people in South Africa were aware
of the fact that you can travel through space-not through the
sky like a bird - but you can travel through space, and the Zulus
claim that many, many thousands of years ago there arrived, out
of the skies, a race of people who were like lizards, people who
could change shape at will. And people who married their
daughters to a walking (extraterrestrial), and produced a power
race of Kings and tribal Chiefs, there are hundreds of
fairy-tales, sir, in which a lizard female assumes the identity
of a human princess and poses as her, and gets married to a Zulu
Every school child in South Africa, sir, knows about the story
of a princess called Khombecansini. Khombecansini was to have
married a handsome Prince called Kakaka, a name which means “the
enlightened one”. Now, one day while Khombecansini was gathering
firewood in the bush, she met a creature called an Imbulu. And
this Imbulu was a lizard which has the body and the limbs of a
human being, but a long tail. And this lizard spoke to Princess Khombecansini, “Oh, how beautiful you are, girl, I wish I could
be like you. I wish I could look like you. Can I come close to
you?” said the Imbulu lizard woman to the princess.
And the princess said, “Yes, you can.”
And as the lizard, which was a taller one, came close to the
girl, she spat into the girl’s eyes and she began to change.
That is, the lizard suddenly changed into a human shape and this
lizard began to look more and more and more and more like the
girl, with the exception of her long, pointed tail. And then,
with her sudden burst of violence, the lizard woman sealed the
princess and removed all her bangles and her beads and her
wedding skirt off her, and she put them on. Thus, the lizard
became the princess.
Now there were two identical women in the bush, the
shape-shifted lizard woman and the original woman. And the
lizard woman said to the original woman, “Now you are my slave.
Now you are going to accompany me to the marriage. I will be you
and you will be my slave, come-on!” She took a stick and started
beating up the poor princess. And then she went, accompanied by
other girls who were bride’s maids, according to Zulu custom,
and she arrived at Prince Kakaka’s village. But, before they
reached the village she had to do something about her tail, that
is, the shape-shifting woman had, somehow, to hide the tail. So,
she forced the princess to weave a net out of fiber and she
tucked the tail in and she tied it tight to herself. She now
looked like a Zulu woman with attractive, very big buttocks,
when seen from outside.
And then, when she arrived and she became the wife of the
prince, a strange thing started happening in the village. All of
the milk started disappearing because each night the
shape-shifting princess, the false princess, used to release her
tail, which used to suck in all of the sour milk through a hole
at the tip of the tail. And the mother-in-law said, “What is
this? Why is the milk disappearing?” Then, she said, “No, I see,
there is an Imbulu amongst us.”
The mother-in-law, who was a clever old lady, said, “A hole must
be dug in the front of the village and it must be filled with
milk.” And this was done. And then, all of the girls who had
come with the false princess were told to jump over this hole.
One after the other one, they jumped. And when the shape-shifter
was forced, at spear-point, to jump as well, as she jumped her
long tail burst out of the net under her skirt and started
slurping the milk through the hole, and the warriors killed the
shape-shifter. And thus, the real Princess Khombecansini became
the wife of the king-of King Kakaka.
Now, sir, this story has got many versions in it. Throughout
South Africa, amongst many tribes, you’ll find stories of these
amazing creatures who are capable of changing from reptile to
human being, and from reptile to any other animal of their
choice. And these creatures, sir, do really exist. No matter
where you go throughout Southern, Eastern, Western, and Central
Africa, you’ll find that the description of these creatures is
the same. Even amongst tribes which never, throughout their long
history, had contact with each other at all.
So, there ARE such creatures. Where they come from, I will never
claim to know, sir. But they are associated with certain stars
in the sky, and one of these stars is a large group of stars
which is part of the Milky Way, which our people call Ingiyab,
which means “The Great Serpent”. And there is a red star, a redish star, near the tip of this huge rim of stars which our
people call IsoneNkanyamba.
Now, this star called IsoneNkanyamba, I managed to find its
English name. It is the star called Alpha Centauri, in English.
Now, this, sir, is something that is worth investigating. Why is
it that well over 500 tribes in parts of Africa which I’ve
visited in the last 40 or 50 years or so, all of them describe
It is said that these creatures feed on us human beings; that
they, at one time, challenged God Himself to war, because they
wanted full control of the universe. And God fought a terrible
battle against them and He defeated them, injured them, and
forced them to hide in cities underground.
They hide in deep cavities underground, because they are always
feeling cold. In these cavities, we are told, there are huge
fires which are kept going by slaves, human, zombie-like slaves.
And, it is further said that these Zuswazi, these Imbulu, or
whatever you choose to call them, are not capable of eating
solid food. They either eat human blood, or they eat that power,
the energy that is generated when human beings, on the surface
of the Earth, are fighting and killing each other in large
I met people who have fled from the early Masaki in Rwanda, from
years ago, and these people were horrified by what was happening
in their country. They said that the slaughter of the Hutus by
the Watusi, and the Watusi by the Hutus, is actually feeding the
Imanujela, monsters. Because the Imanujela like to inhale the
energy that is generated by masses of people being terrified or
being killed by other people.
Are you still with me, sir?
Martin: Yes, I’m completely with you.
Credo Mutwa: Now, let me point out an interesting thing, sir. If
you study the languages of all African nations, you find within
the languages of our people words which are similar to Oriental,
Middle-Eastern, and even Native American words. And the word
Imanujela means “the Lord who came”. A word that anyone can
discover in Rwanda, amongst the Rwandan Hutu and Watusi people,
is very similar to the Herbrew word Immanuel, which means “the
Lord is with us”. Imanujela, “the ones who came, the Lords who
Our people believe, sir, that we, the people of this Earth, are
not masters of our own lives, really, although we are made to
think that we are. Our people say, that is, Black people of all
tribes, all of the initiated ones, all of the shamans everywhere
in Africa, when they get to trust you and share their deepest
secrets with you, they say that [with] the Imanujela, there is
Imbulu. And there is another name by which these creatures are
known. This name is Chitauli. Now, the word Chitauli means “the
dictators, the ones who tell us the law”. In other words, “they
who tell us, secretly, what we are to do”. Now, it is said that
these Chitauli did a number of things to us when they came to
Please forgive me, but I must share this story with you. It is
one of the strangest stories that you find everywhere in Africa
in shamanic secret societies and other places where the remnant
of our ancient knowledge and wisdom are still preserved. It is
that, originally, the Earth was covered by a very thick blanket
of fog or mist. That people could not actually see the Sun in
the sky, except as a nimble of light. And they also saw the Moon
at night as a gentle claw of light in the sky, because there was
this heavy mist. And the rain was always falling in a steady
drizzle. There was no thunder, however. There were no storms.
The world was thickly covered with great forests, great jungles,
and people lived in peace on Earth at that time. People were
happy and it is said, at that time, we human beings did not have
the power of speech. We only made funny sounds like happy
monkeys and baboons, but we did not have speech as we now have
it. And in those centuries, people spoke to each other through
A man could call his wife thinking about her, thinking about the
shape of her face, the smell of her body, and the feel of hair
as a woman. That a hunter would go out into the bush and call
out for animals to come, and the animals would select one of
their number which was old and tired, and this animal would
offer itself to the hunter so that he may kill it quickly and
take it as meat to his cave.
There was no violence against animals. There was no violence
against Nature by human beings at that time. Man used to ask for
food from Nature. He used to come to a tree and think about
fruit, and the tree would allow some of its fruit to fall to the
ground, and man would take it.
And then it is said, however, that when the Chitauli came to
Earth, they arrived in terrible vessels which flew through the
air, vessels which were shaped like great bowls and which made a
terrible noise and a terrible fire in the sky. And the Chitauli
told human beings, whom they gathered together by force with
whips of lightning, that they were great gods from the sky and
that from now on they would receive a number of great gifts from
the god. These so-called gods, who were like human beings, but
very tall, with a long tail, and with terrible burning eyes,
some of them had two eyes-yellow, bright eyes-some had three
eyes, the red, round eye being in the center of their forehead.
These creatures then took away the great powers that human
the power of speaking through the mind only
power of moving objects with their mind only
the power of
seeing into the future and into their past
the power to
travel, spiritually, to different worlds
All of these great powers
the Chitauli took away from human
beings and they gave human beings a new power, now, the power of
speech. But, human beings found, to their horror, that the power
of speech divided human beings, instead of uniting them, because
the Chitauli cunningly created different languages, and they
caused a great quarrel between people.
Also, the Chitauli did
something which has never been done before: they gave human
beings people to rule over them, and they said,
“These are your
kings, these are your chiefs. They have our blood in them. They
are our children, and you must listen to these people because
they will speak on our behalf. If you don’t, we are going punish
you very terribly.”
Before the coming of the
Chitauli, before the coming of the
Imbulu creatures, human beings were spiritually one. But when
the Chitauli came, human beings became divided, both spiritually
as well as by language.
And then, human beings were given strange new feelings by the
Chitauli. Human beings started to feel unsafe, and so they
started making villages with very strong fences of wood around
them. Human beings started becoming country makers. In other
words, they started creating tribes and tribe lands, which had
borders, which they defended against any possible enemy. Human
beings became ambitious and greedy and they wanted to acquire
wealth in the form of cattle, and sea shells.
And, another thing the Chitauli forced human beings to do, they
forced human beings to mine into the Earth. The Chitauli
activated human women and made them to discover minerals and
metals of certain types. Women discovered copper; women
discovered gold; women discovered silver. And, eventually, they
were guided by the Chitauli to alloy these metals and to create
new metals which had never existed in Nature before, metals such
as bronze and brass and others.
Now, the Chitauli, further, removed the sacred rain-bringing
mist from the sky and for the first time since creation, human
beings looked up and saw stars, and the Chitauli told human
beings that they have been wrong in believing that God dwelt
under the Earth.
“From now on,” the
Chitauli told people of this
Earth, “the people of Earth must believe that God is in Heaven
and they must do things here on Earth which would please this
God who is in Heaven.”
You see, originally, human beings had believed that
underground, that she was a very great mother who dwelt under
the Earth because they saw all the green things growing from
under the Earth-the grass came from below ground, the trees grew
from below ground, and the people had believed, therefore, that
the dead people who died go underground. But when the Chitauli
turned humans’ eyes towards the sky, people started believing,
now, that God is in the sky and that those who die from this
Earth don’t go underground, but go up into the sky.
And to this day, sir, throughout Africa wherever you go as an
investigator, you will find this amazing-these two amazing ideas
which conflict with each other.
Many African tribes believe in what is called Midzimu or
Now, the word Midzimu or Badimo means “them who are in the sky”.
But, in Zulu-land, amongst my people, you find this amazing
schism going hand-in-hand. There are Zulus who believe that the
dead ones are the Abapansi, which means “the ones who are below,
who are under the Earth”. Then there is another idea which says
Abapezulu. The word Abapezulu means “those who are above”, and
the word Abapansi, which is the oldest name for the spirits of
the dead, means “they who are under the Earth”.
So, even today, sir, all over Africa amongst hundreds of tribes,
you find this strange double-belief that the dead go into the
sky, and side-by-side with the belief that the dead die and go
under the Earth. This belief that the dead die and go under the
Earth is said to date to the days when our people believed that
God was a woman, the great Cosmic Mother. And, it is contrasted
by the Abapezulu belief that God is a man who dwells in the sky.
Now, sir, another thing that the Chitauli told our people, it is
said, is that we human beings are here on Earth to change the
Earth and to make it suitable for “God” to come down one day and
dwell in it. And it is said that they who work to change this
Earth and make it safe for the serpent god, the Chitauli, to
come and dwell in it, will be rewarded with great power and with
Sir, as I have watched over many years of study, over many years
of initiation of the mysteries of African shamanism, wisdom, and
knowledge, I have found myself wondering why we human beings are
actually destroying the Earth on which we live. We are doing
something which is only done by one other species of animal,
namely, the African elephant, which utterly destroys every tree
in the place in which it dwells.
We human beings are doing exactly this. And wherever you go in
Africa, where once there were great ancient civilizations, you
find desert. For example, there is the Kalahari desert in South
Africa, and under the sands of that desert, I have found the
ruins of ancient cities, which means that human beings turned
this stretch of land, which was once green and fertile, into a
desert. And, in days when I was with explorers and safari people
in the Sahara regions of Africa, I also found evidence of
unbelievably ancient human habitation in places where there is
nothing now but angry rock and whispering sand.
In other words, the Sahara Desert was once a fertile country and
was turned into a desert by human beings. Why? I must ask
myself, again and again, why are human beings being driven by
insecurity, greed, and lust of power to turn the Earth into a
desert in which, ultimately, no human being would ever be able
to live? Why?
Although we are all aware of the terrible dangers that this will
bring about, why are we cutting huge areas of jungle in Africa?
Why are we on Earth carrying out the instructions which the Chitauli programmed into us? Although my mind refuses to accept
this, the answer is a terrible yes, yes, yes.
Amongst the many people of wisdom who honor me with their
friendship, is a man of great knowledge who lives in Israel, Dr.
Sitchin. [Editor’s note: This reference is to Dr.
Sitchin, author of many provocative books about the interaction
of extraterrestrial peoples with Earth humans in very ancient
times.] According to the ancient books which were written by the
people of Sumeria, out of clay, gods came out of the sky and
forced human beings to work for them, to mine gold for them.
This story is confirmed by African legends throughout Africa,
that gods came out of the sky and made us into their slaves, and
they made us into slaves in such a way that we would never
realize that we are slaves.
One other thing that our people say is that the Chitauli prey
upon us like vultures. They raise some of us, they fill some of
us with great anger and great ambition, and they make these
people they’ve raised into great warriors who make terrible war.
But, in the end, the Chitauli do not allow these great leaders,
these great war chiefs and kings, to die peacefully. The warrior
chief is used to make as much war as possible, to kill as many
of his people, and those he calls enemies, as possible, and
then, in the end, the warrior chief dies a terrible death, with
his blood being spilled by others.
And this phenomenon I have seen in my people’s history, again
and again and again. Our great King Shaka Zulu, he fought over
200 great wars during the reign of some 30-something years. And
then, he was slaughtered and he died a violent death. He died a
broken man who, because of the death of his mother, had no
longer the power to win any more battles.
And, before Shaka Zulu, there was another king who trained Shaka
to become the great king that he was. That king’s name was
Dingiswayo. Dingiswayo had fought great wars trying to unite the
Zulu people into one great tribe. He had seen the White people
of the Cape and he thought that, by uniting his people into one
huge nation, he would be able to repel the threat to his people
which the White people posed. But, what happened was, after
winning many battles of uniting many tribes, King Dingiswayo
suddenly became striken by an eye disease which made him almost
blind. And he hid this secret that he could no longer see. But,
that terrible secret was discovered by a woman, a queen of
another tribe, called Ntombazi. Ntombazi took a battle ax and
beheaded Dingiswayo with one blow, after she had lured him into
her hut and given him food and beer to drink.
There is also a similar phenomenon with great White leaders:
Napoleon, in Europe, who died a miserable death on his lonely
island in the Atlantic Ocean; Hitler, also in Europe, who died a
terrible death by putting the gun in the mouth and killing
himself, we are told; Attila the Hun, who was killed by a woman,
and many other great leaders who came to a sticky end after
giving as much death and misery to as many people as they could.
King Shaka was stabbed to death by his half-brother, who used on
him the same type of spear that he had designed to kill people
as quickly as possible. And, Julius Caesar also met a similar
fate after he, like our Shaka Zulu, had conquered many nations.
Always the warrior hero dies a death that he, really, should not
die. King Arthur, in England, was killed by his own son, Mordred
after a long and courageous reign. I could go on and on and on.
Now, all these things, if you bring them together, they show
that whether people laugh at this or not, whether people scoff
at this or not, there is a certain power that is guiding we
human beings toward the dark river of self-destruction. And the
sooner many of us become aware of this, the better, perhaps, we
might be able to deal with it.
Martin: Do you believe that these beings are around the world
equally, or are they primarily focused in Africa?
Credo Mutwa: Sir, I believe that these creatures are everywhere
on Earth, and with respect, sir, although I hate talking about
myself so much, I am a person who has traveled to many parts of
the world. I have been to your country, the United States, sir.
I have been to Australia. I have been to Japan, amongst other
And no matter where I have gone, sir, I have found people
telling me about creatures like this. For example, in 1997, I
visited Australia, sir, and I traveled a lot to try and find the
Black people of Australia, the Aborigine. And when I did find
them, they told me a number of things that astonished me very,
very much. The same things that I’d found in Japan, I found in
Taiwan. Everywhere where there are still shaman and traditional
healers, you find these amazing stories.
Now, let me tell you, sir, what I found in Australia alone.
This, that the Australian Aborigine people, who call themselves
Coorie, which means “our people”: The Coorie people of Australia
believe in a great creating god called Byamie, sir. A Coorie
shaman, in fact, several of them, drew me pictures of this
Byamie, and one of them showed me a rock painting representing
this strange creator god who came out of the stars. And when
they placed their drawing in front of me, what they showed was a
Chitauli. I recognized it from my African initiation. It had a
large head. It had large eyes, which were stressed by the
artist. It had no mouth, and it had long arms and incredibly
long legs. Sir, this was a typical depiction of a Chitauli which
I knew from my own people in Africa.
I asked myself “Why?” Here I am in a country many thousands of
miles away from Africa, and here I am seeing a being known as
the Biamai or Bimi, who is a creature with which I, the African,
Amongst the Native American people, sir, I found, for example,
amongst certain tribes in America, tribes such as
people, and those people who stay in those buildings called a
pueblo, I found that these people-they have got what are called
Katchina creatures, where people wear masks and disguise
themselves as certain creatures. And some of these Katchinas are
very, very tall, with a huge round head.
Exactly as we have in Africa, I found similar creatures in
America. In Africa we call these creatures Egwugwu, or, we call
them by another name, called Chinyawu. The Katchina of the
Native American people, and the Chinyawu of our people, are
identical beings. Now, why should this be? When were American
Native people and Africans in contact? When? This is one of the
greatest mysteries of all time, sir. It is one of many things
that I found throughout the world which left me utterly amazed.
There ARE such creatures, and the sooner skeptics amongst us
face up to this fact, the better it shall be. Why is human-kind
not progressing? Why are we running around in a great circle of
self-destruction and mutual-destruction?
People are basically good; I believe this. People don’t want to
start wars. People don’t want to destroy the world in which they
stay, but there are creatures, or there is power that is driving
we human beings toward self-annihilation. And the sooner we
recognize this, the better.
Just now, I live in Africa. Here are my people. Here is my home.
But I see Africa being destroyed in wars that make no sense
whatsoever to me as an African. I look at India which, like
Africa, suffered the scourge of colonialism by the French, the
English, and other European powers. But India, through her
independence as a country, has achieved the things which we,
Africa, have failed to achieve. Why?
India has exploded the atomic bomb and is today one of the
feared nations of this world. India has launched satellites into
orbit. India, although she has the same problems as Africa has - a
burgeoning population, religion as well as tribal
strife - although India has got an incredibly poor section of her
population, as well as an incredibly rich one, she has achieved
things that Africa has failed to achieve.
Now, I ask myself “Why? Why?” Because India was established by
people from Africa, and I don’t think, sir, as the Black races
about this. This is a fact that, thousands of years ago, people
from Africa laid the foundation of the greatest civilization of
India, as well as other countries in Southeast Asia. There is
overwhelming archeological evidence of this. But, why is Africa
drowning in war, in disease, and in hunger? Why?
Many times, sir, I sit in my hut and I cry when I see diseases
like AIDS destroying us; when I see senseless wars destroying
those countries in Africa which had thrived for thousands of
Say, Ethiopia is a country that has been free for thousands of
years. Ethiopia was once the school of all of Africa. Nigeria
was once a great country with a long tradition of
self-government - long, long before the White man came to Africa.
But today, all of these countries and many others are being
Today, sir, there are parts of Africa which have been totally
depopulated by war and by the disease called AIDS, a disease
which shows every sign of being a man-made disease. I ask
myself, “Who or what is destroying Africa, and why?”
Because there are tribes in those villages I lived in, who
assisted my search for knowledge, before the Second World War
and after. But today these tribes no longer exist anymore. They
are gone, dispersed, totally exterminated in senseless wars that
gain the Black people nothing.
I am in South Africa now. Here I was born, and here I was to
die. But I see my country falling apart like a rotting mango.
South Africa was once a powerful country. She had a powerful
army. She had huge industries, which were producing everything
from locomotives to little radios. But today my country has
become a drug-sodden, crime-ridden piece of rubbish. Why? A
country doesn’t get destroyed almost overnight, unless there are
definite forces which are determined to obliterate it.
I recently saw, sir, the destruction of another country inside
South Africa. The country is Lesotho. This country, Lesotho, is
inhabited by some of the oldest and the wisest tribes in South
Africa. Amongst them is a tribe called the Bakwama. The
people are so ancient that they actually describe to you a
mysterious land of huge pointed mountains, a mysterious land
ruled by a great god, who had the head of a human being and the
body of the lion. [One immediately thinks of the Sphinx in
The Bakwama call this country Ntswama-tfatfi. This land that
they name Ntswama-tfatfi means “the land of the Sun-hawk”. The
hawk is the bird of prey in Heaven-you know? Now, these Bakwama
people did, in South Africa, know about the land of Egypt where
they say their ancestors came from. And they call this
mysterious land of the gods, “the land of the Sun-hawk, or the
Sun-eagle”, which is exactly how the Egyptians portrayed their
country, sir. They portrayed it as “the land of Hor”, the god
Horus in Greece.
Now, when Princess Diana died, in 1997, I was one of the first
Black people to suspect that Princess Diana had been murdered,
and I will tell you why this thing happened, sir. Because, about
a year or 8 months before Diana died, there died a king in
Lesotho, King Moshoeshoe II. King Moshoeshoe II’s death was
detail-for-detail identical to Princess Diana’s death.
Consider this please, all of you who might find my words
incredible: Princess Diana died in a tunnel, but the king of
Lesotho died in a ravine. He had gone far away to investigate a
problem in his cattle ranch. It was found that he was overdue,
and when the people went to search for him, they heard from
various boys who were looking after the cattle in the Basotho-land
mountains, that the boys had heard what sounded like a rifle
shot, and when the men went to look where the rifle shot had
sounded, they found the king’s car off the road and deep in the
They went down their and they found that the king of
Lesotho was in his car. He was strapped in a safety belt, but he
had a terrible injury at the back of his head. And they found
that the king’s driver was dead at the steering wheel. But, the
two men who were the king’s bodyguards, who were riding in the
king’s vehicle in the seat directly behind the king, had escaped
without a scratch. One of the men entered the car and pulled out
the dying king. The king apologized to them for messing-up their
hands with his blood, which was a tradition, that a dying king
must thank the people who are trying to get him out of where he
is. And he must apologize to them for putting them into trouble,
because anyone who handles the sacred blood of the king is in
spiritual trouble of some kind after that.
Then, when the king’s car was brought out of the ravine, it was
found that there was a hole, like a bullet hole, in one of the
tires of the car. And that car’s tire was mysteriously removed,
afterwards, when the king’s car was stored not in a safe place,
but in a yard outside where anybody could get at it. And, when
an autopsy was conducted on the body of the driver of the king’s
car, it was found that the man had been so drunk as to not have
been able to drive the car at all. And third, the man who had
driven the king’s car and who died at the wheel had not been the
man who usually drives the king’s car.
Now, sir, do you see this mystery now? The death of the Lesotho
king matched that of Princess Diana, which was to follow it. In
many other amazing details than I have detailed now, and so the
nation of Lesotho was reduced to a retch after the king’s death,
when rioting took place as a result of a general election which
provisional party members prospected and controlled.
Today Lesotho is an economically moribund nation. And Lesotho is
a country which was the place of a strange experiment-an
experiment which consisted of the building of a huge dam, whose
purpose was to supply South Africa, and not Lesotho, with large
quantities of water. And we have recently heard ugly rumors
emanating from that country, that somebody was bribed to
facilitate the building of this huge dam where the water of a
small nation is being used to supply, to supplement the water
supplies of a highly industrialized nation.
There are many strange things, sir, which have taken place in
South Africa, and are taking place, as well as in other parts of
Africa, which make no sense to me as an African. There are wars
which take place in Africa, where after an African country has
gained its independence from the colonial power, then a force of
rebels pick up weapons against that country’s government, but
instead of the rebels fighting the government to the bitter end,
what happens again and again is that the rebel forces split into
various groups which end up fighting not only the government in
power, but also each other. And the result is that, in several
African countries, the country is so destroyed that, no matter
which party wins, the people lose. The United Nations are caused
to be called in, in order to create some semblance of peace. In
other words, Africans have now started fighting wars which bring
about not victory, but the destruction of themselves, as well as
I would like to draw your attention, sir, to the senseless tide
which is still raging in the Sudan, as well as other parts of
Africa. I would like to draw your attention, sir, to the longest
and most terrible civil war which is destroying the southern
parts of the Sudan. I would like to draw your attention, and
that of your readers, sir, to the terrible war which is
destroying Angola. And one part of the world, to the East of
Southern Africa, has been so raped by many years of war that
there are now places where you don’t even hear a bird-thing. All
living forms of life have been wiped-out in that place. Now,
And then, I have found that these countries that are being
destroyed by senseless wars which are totally out of character
for us Africans, and I speak as an African, are those countries
which, had they been left alone, could have supplied the whole
of Africa with food, with water, and with valuable minerals. I
am told, sir, that under the surface of Angola, under the plains
of Angola, are deposits of coal which are without equal in this
world. I am further told that in parts of Angola there are
deposits of oil which are second only to those reserves of oil
which are in the Middle East.
The Sudan is a country which I visited several times during, and
even after, the Second World War. In the Sudan there was so much
food that you received free food from the villagers, as you
traveled through the Sudan. Today, southern Sudan is a
starvation-torn, battle of rage hellhole where children die of
diarrhea in the bush while the vultures and buzzards wait on the
branches of trees to feast. Africa is being systematically and
deliberately destroyed by a power of such relentlessness that it
is continuing the destruction even now.
But, this power is getting desperate.
Martin: Excuse me. Did you say there was coal in Angola or gold?
Credo Mutwa: Coal, sir, coal. There are diamonds in Angola, sir.
And I have learned from reliable people that there is more oil
under Angola, in certain places, than there is in certain parts
of the Middle East.
Is this what Africa is being destroyed for? Is this what our
nations are being slaughtered for - for coal under the surface,
for diamonds? If so, who is this intelligence that is behind
this? Are people less valuable than minerals? Are people less
valuable than oil?
Because, sir, genocide, worse than anything that Hitler ever
committed upon the Jewish people, is taking place in Africa NOW,
and the people of America don’t seem to care a damn. Why? We are
the best friends that the United States has got. We are the best
people. We buy American products. Our children want to look like
American children. Our kids wear jeans, sir, and they even speak
with American accents, because you American people are our role
model. Why are you allowing us to be slaughtered? Why? Why?
Not only are we being killed by war, sir, we are being killed by
drugs. There were no drugs in South Africa during the days of
the apartheid government. Now, under our democratic government,
our country has become one drug-sodden cess pit. Why?
Today, sir, and I speak as a traditional shaman, one of my
purposes is to try and help people with a drug problem. Sir, I
can help a young African who is abusing marijuana or hashish. I
can help a young African who is dependent upon Dakwa. But, sir,
I am useless, my skills are rubbish and I fail again - and so do
many like me - to help young Black people who are addicted to a
new type of drug which is called “crack”. It is a hard-looking
drug. It’s like hardened chocolate when you see it, and this
thing is so addictive that no shaman can help a young victim of
I am asking the people of the United States of America, I am
asking my Black brothers and my Black sisters over there, why
are you allowing the country which is your mother to be
I don’t care what skeptics say, sir. Please forgive me when I
really get hot under the collar. I don’t care what skeptics say,
but there IS a force destroying Africa and I am not buying the
nonsense that it is the bankers of the IMF and other big banks.
You don’t kill the goose that gives you the golden egg, so why
would the bankers want to destroy Africa? There is another force
behind these people, a terrible, alien force, which does things
behind the scenes which - and the sooner we recognize this, the
better - sir, it is very common for human beings who are in
trouble to blame forces other than those inside themselves.
But, I have studied the situation in Africa since the end of the
Second World War, and before, and I have evidence that points to
an alien force at work in Africa.
What, who is wiping out Africa’s oldest tribes?
Please, sir, let me tell you a thing that cuts my soul. May I
Martin: Please, continue.
Credo Mutwa: Please, I’m sorry to talk so much. Please forgive
me. I belong to the Zulu nation, a nation of warriors, a nation
of wise people. My people, sir, have never been studied by White
anthropologists thoroughly, but the Zulu people knew things
that, if I were to share with your readers, they would be
Let me show you this. The Zulu people KNEW, amongst many things,
that it is the Earth which moves around the Sun, and not the
other way around. They said, to explain this thing to the
initiated, that the Earth is a feminine creature and the Sun is
a male creature, and, therefore, the Earth is the mobile one who
dances around the Sun - the beautiful princess who dances around
the fiery king who is the Sun. Our people knew that the Earth
was a sphere. Our people knew about germs and their function.
When the White man came to Africa, where did this incredible
knowledge come from? I do not know.
The people of America and the people of Europe say that it was
Albert Einstein who came out with the idea that time and space
are one and the same thing. My answer to that is, “No!”
My people, the Zulus, knew that space and time was one thing. In
the language of the Zulu, one of the names for space is
And the Zulu name for time is isikati. Now, our people knew that
space and time were one and the same thing, hundreds of years
before Einstein’s birth.
And furthermore, our people believed, like the Dogon people,
that there are 24 planets in our part of space which are
inhabited by intelligent creatures of various states. And, this
knowledge has never been recorded in any book, and I and my aunt
are the only surviving high sanusi [shaman] in South Africa who
are the keepers of this knowledge. My aunt is still alive. She
is about 90-something years old, and I am now close to dead,
suffering from diabetes - a terrible killer of African people
And, what I am trying to tell you is that, although my people
had this tremendous knowledge, which has never been written down
in any book, the Zulu people today, a huge percentage of them,
are victims of HIV or outright AIDS. And it has been calculated,
sir, in the next 50 years, fully three-fourths of the Zulu
people in Natal are going to die. And I am the keeper of sacred
objects which I inherited from my grandfather. I am, from my
mother’s side, a direct descendant of the last true Zulu king,
Dingame. And, my duty should be to protect my people from
anything that threatens their existence.
Look, please, sir. Anyone who studies humanity with love, with
understanding, and with care, recognizes the fact that there is
a shining God which is struggling to be born within each and
every one of us. We are trying to fight back, although many of
us are not yet aware of this. We are developing an attitude of
wanting to protect our planet, no matter who or what we are.
There are chiefs in Africa who fine you very heavily if they see
you destroying a tree unnecessarily. This thing was common in
the past, but it disappeared with the coming of the White
people; but now it has come back again.
Man is becoming, is struggling to become a more advanced, more
caring being, and the aliens are not going to take this lying
down. They are going to cause us to kill each other, again. And
I am worried about what is going to happen.
Sir, I can show you many strange things that African people did
to protect themselves against the Grey aliens. The things that
our people did were not the result of superstition. They were
the result of terrible personal experience.
One day I hope to share with you, sir, the story of how I got
“taken”, we say. We believe, sir, that the Mantindane (“the
tormentor”), the Greys, are really servants of the Chitauli. And
that they, contrary to what White people think - White people
think a wrong thing, sir, many - that the Mantindane are
experimenting with us. They are NOT. I repeat, they are not.
Anyone who has been through the hells of these beings will tell
you that there is nothing experimental in what they do. There is
a cold, cold, cold-blooded resolve, and they are not doing what
they do to us for themselves, they are doing what they do to us
for greater creatures than they are. Please, sir, can you give
me a little time to share with you, briefly, what happened to
Martin: Oh yes, absolutely, please. We have all the time you
Credo Mutwa: Sir, it was an ordinary day, like any other day. It
was a beautiful day in the eastern mountains of Zimbabwe, which
are called Inyangani. These are mountains to the East of
Now, I had been instructed by my teacher to go and find a
special herb which we were going to use in the healing of a
certain initiate who was badly ill. And my teacher, a woman
called Mrs. Moyo, was Ndebele, from Zimbabwe, once known as
I was looking for this herb, and I was not thinking about
anything, and I had no belief whatsoever in these creatures. I
had never encountered them before, and although we African
people believe in many things, I was mighty skeptical, even
about certain entities that we believed in at that time, because
I had never encountered anything like that before.
And all of a sudden, sir, I noticed that the temperature around
me had dropped, although it was a very hot African day. I
suddenly noticed that it was now cold and there was, what
appeared to be, a bright blue mist swirling all around me,
getting between me and the eastern landscape. I remember
wondering, stupidly, what this thing meant, because I had just
begun to dig one of the herbs I had found.
Suddenly, I found myself in a very strange place, a place that
looked like a tunnel lined with metal. I had worked in mines
before, and where I found myself appeared to be a mine tunnel
which was lined with silver-greyish metal.
I was lying on what appeared to be a very heavy and very large
working bench or a working table, sir. But yet, I was not
chained to the table. I was just lying there and my trousers
were missing, and so were the heavy boots that I always wore
when I was out in the bush. And all of a sudden, in this
strange, tunnel-like room, I saw what appeared to be dull,
heady-looking, grey, dull-like creatures which were moving
There were lights in this place, but not lights as we know them.
They seemed to be patches of glowing stuff. And there was
something above the far entrance which looked like writing, that
writing against the silver-grey surface, and these creatures
were coming at me but I was hypnotized, just as if the
witchcraft had been put upon my head.
But I watched the creatures as they were coming towards me. I
didn’t know what they were. I was frightened, but I couldn’t
move my arms or my legs. I just lay there like a goat on a
sacrificial altar. And when the creatures came towards me, I
felt fear inside me. They were short creatures, about the size
of African Pigmy. They have very large heads, very thin arms,
and very thin legs.
I noticed, sir, because I am an artist, a painter, that these
creatures were built all wrong from an artist’s point of view.
Their limbs were too long for their body, and their necks were
very thin, and their heads were almost as large as full-grown
watermelons. They had strange eyes, which looked like goggles of
some kind. They had no noses, as we have, only small holes on
either side of the raised area between their eyes. Their mouth
had no lips, only thin cuts as if made by a razor.
And while I was looking at these creatures, sir, in amazed
fascination, I felt something close to my head, about my head.
And when I looked up, there was another creature, a slightly
bigger one than the other, and it was standing above my head and
was looking down at me.
I looked up into its eyes and I was totally hypnotized, and you
know, I was spellbound. I looked into the thing’s eyes and I
noticed that the creature wanted me to keep looking into his
eyes. I looked and saw that, through these covers over their
eyes, I could see the creature’s real eyes behind this black,
goggle-like cover. It’s eyes were round, with straight pupils,
like those of a cat. And the thing was not moving it’s head. It
was breathing; I could see that. I could see little nostrils
moving, closing and shutting, but sir, if anybody says to me
that I smelled like that creature, really, I would konk him one
on the face.
Credo Mutwa: The creature smelled like nobody’s business. It had
a strange smell, a throat-tightening, chemical smell, which
smelled like rotten eggs, and also like hot copper [sulfur], a
very strong smell.
And the creature saw me looking at it, and it looked down at me
and, all of a sudden, I felt a terrible, awful pain on my left
thigh, as if a sword had been driven into my left thigh. I
screamed in pain, horrible, calling out for my mother, and the
creature placed it’s hand over my mouth. You know, sir, it was
like-if you want to know how that felt, please sir, take the leg
of a chicken, a live chicken, and place it against your lips.
That was how the creature’s hand felt upon my mouth.
It had thin, long fingers, which had more joints than my human
fingers have. And the thumb was in the wrong place. Each one of
the fingers ended in a black claw, almost like certain African
birds. The thing was telling me to be quiet. And how long the
pain went on, sir, I don’t know. I screamed and I screamed and I
And then, all of a sudden, something was pulled out of my flesh,
and I looked down and saw my thigh covered with blood, and I saw
that one of the creatures - there were four of them, other than
the one standing over my head - they wore tight fitting overalls,
which were silvery-grey in color, and their flesh resembled the
flesh of certain types of fish that we find in the sea off South
Africa. And the creature standing above my head appeared to be a
female. It was somehow different than the others. It was taller,
bigger, although it didn’t have breasts like a woman, it
appeared to be feminine. And the others appeared to be afraid of
it, I don’t know how I can describe this.
And then, while this terrible thing was going on, another of the
creatures came up to me - it walked sideways, in a slightly
jerking way, as if it was drunk - it walked up along the table, to
my right side, and it stood next to the one standing above my
head. And before I knew what was happening, this creature stuck
something that was like a small, silver, ball-point pen with a
cable at one end, it pushed this thing, coldly, into my right
Sir, the pain was out of this world. Blood splattered all over.
I choked and tried to scream, but the blood got into my throat.
It was a nightmare. Then, it pulled the thing out and I tried to
fight and sit up.
The pain was terrible, but the other thing above my head placed
it’s hand upon my forehead and kept me down with very little
force. I was choking and trying to spit out the blood, and then
I managed to turn my head to the right to spit out the blood,
which I did, and then what the creatures did to me, sir, I don’t
All I do know is that the pain went away, and in place of the
pain, strange visions flooded my head, visions of cities, some
of which I recognized from my travels - but, cities which were
half-destroyed, the buildings having their tops blown away, with
windows like empty eye-sockets in a human skull. I saw these
visions again and again. All the buildings that I saw were
half-drowned in a reddish, muddish water.
It was as if there had been a flood and the buildings were
sticking up out of this great flood, partly destroyed by a
disaster of some kind, and it was a terrible sight.
And then, before I knew it, one of the creatures, the one
standing next to my feet, drove something into my organ of
manhood, but here there was no pain, just a violent irritation,
as if I was making love to something or someone.
And then, when the creature withdrew the thing, which was like a
small, black tube which it had forced into my organ of manhood,
I did something which produced a strange result, and I did not
do it intentionally. I think it was my bladder opened, and I
urinated straight into the chest of the creature which had
pulled the thing out of my organ.
And if I had shot the creature, it would never have reacted as
it did. It jerked away and nearly fell, and then it recovered
and staggered away like a drunken insect, and left the room. I
don’t know whether my urine did it; I don’t know. But that is
Then, after a while, the other creatures went away, leaving me
with a dull pain in my nostril, with blood on my thigh, and the
table wet with urine. And the thing standing above my head had
not moved. It just stood there with it’s right hand touching
it’s left shoulder, in a strangely beautiful and feminine way.
It stood there looking at me. There was no expression in its
face. I never saw any of the creatures talk or make any sound of
any kind. All I do know is that they appeared to be mute.
And then, out of somewhere there arrived two other creatures,
one of which was made entirely out of metal. Even in my worst
nightmares, I still see this creature. It was tall. It was big.
And the area in which we were was too small for it. It walked
with a slight stoop, moving forward, and it was definitely not a
living thing. It was a metal creature, a robot of some kind. And
it came and it stood near my feet, its whole body clumsily bent,
looking down at me. There was no mouth. There was no nose. There
were just two bright eyes, which seemed to change color, and
seemed to move somehow, like the crackling of an electrical
And then, behind this huge, bent creature, came a creature which
surprised me. It was very, very, very, very swollen, sir, in
appearance. It had pink skin. It had a blondish, very human
body. It had very bright, blue, slanting eyes. It had hair which
looked like nylon fiber of some kind. It had high cheek-bones
and an almost human mouth, with full lips and a small, pointed
chin. The creature, sir, was definitely a female but like an
artist and a painter, which I am, and also a sculptor, I noticed
that the creature was totally out of proportion. It was wrong.
First, its breasts were thin and pointed, and set too high upon
its chest, not where a normal woman’s breasts would be. Its body
was powerful, almost fat, but its legs were too short and its
arms were too short in proportion to the rest of its body. And
it came towards me, looked down at me, and before I knew what it
was doing, somehow it mated with me. It was a horrible
experience, sir, even worse than what had been done to me
before. But even now, the trauma of that day had affected my
life even now, exactly 40 years later.
And after that, when the creatures had gone, leaving only the
one creature which had been standing about my head, the creature
standing about my head shook me by the hair, it gripped me by
the head and forced me to stand off the table and to get off the
table. I did that, and such was the state that I was in, that I
fell onto my knees and hands, onto the floor.
And I noticed that that floor was strange. It had moving
patterns in it, which kept on changing and shifting-purple, red,
and greenish patterns, on a metal-grey background. And the
creature pulled me by the hair, again, forcing me to stand up,
and it pushed me roughly and made me follow it.
Sir, it would take too long for me to describe what I saw in
that strange place, as the creature pushed me, roughly, from
room to room. Even now my mind can’t grasp what it was that I
saw. Amongst many things that I saw were huge cylindrical
objects, made of what appeared to be glass of some kind. And in
these object, cylinders, which reached from the roof to the
floor of the place we were going through, was what appeared to
be a sort of a greyish-pink liquid. And in this liquid I saw
small editions of the alien creatures floating round and round,
like disgusting little frogs, inside this liquid.
I couldn’t understand what it was that I was being shown. But
then, in the last room I was led through, I saw people, and
other strange creatures, which, even now, my mind can’t make
head or sense out of, lying on the table.
And I passed a White man, a real White man, who smelled like a
human being, was smelling of sweat, urine, excrement, and fear.
This White man was lying on a table like the one I had been
lying on, and I looked into his eyes and he looked into mine as
I went by.
And then I found myself out in the bush. I found that my
trousers were missing. There was a terrible pain in my left
thigh. There was a pain in my penis which was starting to swell,
and when I tried to pass water, the pain was excruciating. I
took off my shirt and I used it as a loin-cloth and I walked
through the bush.
I first met a group of young Rhodesian Black people who guided
me to my teacher’s village. And when I arrived outside that
village, I smelled so horribly that every dog in the village
came yapping and snarling to tear me to pieces. And it was only
my teacher and her other students and the villagers who saved me
on that day. My teacher and the villagers were not at all
surprised by what I had to tell them. They accepted it, sir.
They said to me that what had happened to me had happened to
many other people before, and that I was lucky to return alive,
because many people have disappeared in that part of the land,
never to be seen again - White people, Black people, and so on.
Sir, I’m cutting a very long story short. In the year following,
1960, I was delivering parcels in the city of Johannesburg. You
see, I was working in a curio shop, when a White man shouted at
me to stop.
I assumed that the White man was a secret policeman who wanted
to look into my identity documents. And when I tried to produce
the documents, he told me, angrily, that he didn’t want to see
my stinking documents.
Sir, he asked me this question: “Listen, where the hell have I
seen you before? Who are you?”
I said, “I am nobody, sir; I am just a working man.”
He said, “Don’t bullshit me, man; who the hell are you? Where
did I see you before?”
And then I looked at him. I recognized him - his long, straggly,
golden-brown hair, his ridiculous mustache and beard. I
remembered him - his blue eyes blood-shot and naked-terror,
shining upon his eyes, and his skin as pale as that of a goat.
I said, “Meneer”, which is the African’s way. “Meneer - I saw you
in Rhodesia in a certain place underground.” And if I had hit
that White man with my fist, he wouldn’t have reacted the way he
did, sir. He turned away and walked with a terrible expression,
and he disappeared on the other side of the street.
Now, roughly, this is what happened to me, sir, but it is not a
unique experience at all.
Since that time I met many, many, many people who have had the
identical experience that I said, and most of them were
traditional Black men and women who can neither read nor write.
They were coming to me to seek my help as a shaman, but I was,
myself, looking for somebody wiser than I to tell me what had
happened to me, exactly. Because, sir, when I get caught by the
Mantindane, you become so traumatized, your life becomes so
changed, you become so embarrassed and ashamed of yourself, you
develop a self-hatred which you cannot understand, and there are
subtle changes in your life which make no sense to you.
One: You develop a strange love for humankind. You want to shake
everybody by the shoulders and say, “Hey, wake-up people; we are
not alone. I know we are not alone!”
And, you develop a feeling that your life is no longer your own;
and furthermore, you become compelled with a strange edge to
move from place to place, to travel. You become worried about
the future; you become worried about people.
And another thing, sir, which I hoped one day you would send
people to me to see for their own self: you develop knowledge
which doesn’t belong to you. You develop an understanding of
space, an understanding of time and creation which makes no
sense to you as a human being - it is a state, after your terrible
torture, after substances have been removed from you, some kind
of exchange takes place where you suddenly know things that the
Mantindane would know, which ordinary human beings do not know.
But, sir, I know that this sharing of God often happens even
when for example, at one time, in 1966, in South Africa, sir, I
was arrested and rather savagely interrogated by the security
police. It was that time when every Black intellectual, no
matter who he or she was, had a visit from these really nasty
guys, who put you to torture, sometimes, who used to put
electrical devices on you, and ask you questions, and so on.
Sometimes, when these “human beings” were torturing you, you
often used to sense what they were thinking. Somehow, when you
are being tortured by human beings, not by Mantindane only,
there is a transference of thought. For example, when a
particularly nasty secret policeman was coming to beat you, you
KNEW what he was thinking, even before he burst into the room in
which you were held. You knew that he was coming, and you knew
exactly what he was thinking and what he intended to do to you.
So, this is why I say the strange things that flood my mind. And
what flooded my mind on that day were visions from the mind of
Since that time - I am a man of only very limited education - I
found it hard to speak, let alone to write English. I take long
to say things which people of better English would say in few
words. But, my hands are capable of making things which nobody
ever taught me.
I make engines, rocket engines that actually work. I make guns,
of any type I wish, and all people who know me will tell you
this and, Mr.
David Icke, sir, might show you pictures of what
I’ve done around my new home. I have made large robots out of
scrap iron, and some of these robots are going to work. I don’t
know where I acquired this knowledge from. And since that
terrible day, the visions I have seen since I was a child, and
the ordinary impressions which I have as a shaman, have grown
much more intense.
I don’t know why, and I want to know the reason why. But I can
tell you, sir, that these creatures, which people wrongly call
aliens, are not aliens at all.
Over many years of looking into this thing, trying to understand
it, I can tell you this: that the Mantindane, and the other
kinds of alien beings that our people know about, are sexually
compatible with human beings. The Mantindane are capable of
impregnating African women.
And I have come across many cases of this during the last 30
years or so. For example, according to our culture, abortion is
regarded as worse than murder. And if a tribal woman from a
rural area in South Africa is found to be pregnant by some
unknown person, and then her pregnancy disappears, that, sir,
relative to that woman, accuses her of having committed
abortion, and yet she denies this, of course.
And because of the fight that results between her and her
relatives, the husband’s relatives, then she challenges these
people who are accusing her to take her to a sangoma; that is a
person like myself. The sangoma will sometimes examine the woman
and, if the sangoma finds that the woman had been pregnant, and
had somehow had her fetus removed - a thing which, when it is done
by the Mantindane, results in specific injuries to the woman
which anyone with experience can recognize - then, the sangoma
knows that the woman is telling the truth.
Also, the smell which clings to people who have been through the
hands of the Mantindane, that meticulous man which is
unforgettable, always clings to all women who have been
impregnated by the Mantindane, no matter how much perfume or
powder they try to use.
So, that is why many such cases land on the doorstep of my life.
Sangomas bring such people to me in large numbers, because they
think I am the best one to help in such problems.
So, in the last 40 years or so, I have received many women who
have actually been impregnated by the Mantindane and their
pregnancies mysteriously terminated, leaving the woman feeling
defiled, feeling guilty, and rejected by her family. It becomes
my duty to convince the family of the woman’s innocence, to try
and heal the terrible spiritual and mental, as well as
physical-trauma that the woman has undergone, and to otherwise
help her and her members of the family, and forget what
No, sir; if these aliens are from a far away planet, why are
they able to impregnate women? And why did that strange
creature, which was naked, with red pubic hair, which climbed
over me on that working table, why did it have an organ which,
though slightly different from that of a normal woman, was still
a recognizable female organ?
The creature’s organ was in the wrong place. It was slightly
more in the front, where that of normal woman is between the
legs. But it was recognizable, and it looked like a female
organ. It had hair like a woman’s organ.
So, sir, I believe that these so-called aliens don’t come from
far away at all. I believe that they are here with us, and I
believe that they need substances from us, just as some of us
human beings use certain things from wild animals, such as
monkey glands, for certain selfish purposes of our own.
I believe, sir, that we should study this dangerous phenomenon
very, very, clearly and with objective minds.
Far too many people fall into the temptation of looking upon
these “aliens” as supernatural creatures. They are just solid
creatures, sir. They are like us; and, furthermore, I’m going to
make a statement here which will come as a surprise: the Grey
aliens, sir, are edible. Surprised?
Martin: Please continue.
Credo Mutwa: I said, sir, the Grey aliens are edible.
Martin: Yes, I heard that and I’m anxious to....
Credo Mutwa: Their flesh is protein, just as animal flesh on
Earth is, but, anyone who ingests Grey alien flesh comes very,
very close to death. I nearly did.
You see, in Lesotho there is a mountain called Laribe; it is
called the Crying Stone mountain. On several occasions, in the
last 50 years or so, alien craft have crashed against this
And one last incident was reported in the newspapers not so long
ago. An African who believes that these creatures are gods, when
they find the corpse of a dead Grey alien, they take it, put it
in a bag, and drag it into the bush, where they dismember it and
ritually eat it. But some of them die as a result of ingesting
About a year before I had the experience from the Inyangani
Mountains, I had been given, by a friend of mine in Lesotho,
flesh from what he called a sky god. I was skeptical.
He gave me a small lump of grey, rather dry stuff, which he said
was the flesh. And he and I and his wife ritually ate this
thing, one night. After we had eaten this thing, sir, on the
following day, exactly, our bodies erupted into a rash which was
like nothing I had experienced in my life before.
Our bodies were so full of the rash and urticaria, it was as if
we had small pox. We itched, the itching was horrible,
especially under the arm-pits and between the legs, and the
buttocks. Our tongues began to swell. We could not breathe. And
for a number of days, my friend, his wife and I were totally
helpless, secretly attended by initiates who were studying under
my friend, who was a shaman.
I came very close to death. There was bleeding from nearly every
orifice in our body. We passed blood, much blood when we went to
the toilet. We could barely walk, barely breathe. And after
about 4 or 5 days, the rash subsided, then the pealing of the
skin took its place now. Our skins began to peal, in scales like
that of a snake shedding it’s skin.
Sir, it was one of the most terrible experiences I had
undergone. In fact, when I began to feel better, I think that my
being abducted by the Mantindane was the direct result of my
having ingested flesh from one of these creatures. I had not
believed that what my friend was giving me was flesh from a
creature. I assumed it was some kind of root or herb or
whatever. But, afterwards, I recalled the taste of the thing. It
had a coppery taste, and had the same type of smell that I was
to encounter in 1959.
And, after the rash went down - while I was still peeling and we
were smeared from head to foot with coconut oil by the
initiates, every day - a strange change came over us, sir, which I
am asking all people of knowledge who would read this in your
country to try and explain to me. We went crazy, sir, utterly
We started laughing like real loony tunes. It was
ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha, day after day-for the slightest things we
started laughing our heads off, for hours, until you were nearly
And then the laughing went away; and then a strange thing
happened, a thing which my friend said was the goal which those
who ate the flesh of a Mantindane wanted to achieve.
It was as if we had ingested a strange substance, a drug, a drug
like no other on this Earth. Suddenly, our feelings were
When you drank water, it was as if you had drunk a wine of some
kind. Water became as delicious as a man-made drink. Food began
to taste amazingly. Every feeling was heightened, and it’s
indescribable - it was as if I was one with the very heart of the
universe. I cannot describe it any other way.
And this feeling of amazing intensity of feeling lasted for over
2 months. When I listened to music, it was as if there was music
behind the music, behind the music. When I painted
pictures - which is what I do for a living - and when I was holding
a particular color on the tip of my brush, it was as if there
were other colors in that color. It was an indescribable thing,
sir. Even now I cannot describe it. But let me now, sir, go to
The Mantindane are not the only alien beings that we Africans
have seen and know about, and have got stories to tell about.
Many, many, many centuries ago, before the first White-man came
to Africa, we African people encountered a race of alien beings
which looked exactly like the European White-man who were going
to invade Africa in our future.
These alien creatures are tall. Some of them are rather well
built, like athletes, and they have slightly slanting blue eyes
and high cheek-bones. And they have got golden hair, and they
look exactly like the Europeans of today, with one exception:
their fingers are beautifully made, long and like those of
musicians and artists.
Now, these creatures came to Africa out of the sky, in craft
which looked like the boomerang of the Australian people. Now,
when one of these craft comes down to land, it creates a
whirlwind of dust, which makes a very large sound indeed, like
that of a tornado. In the language of some African tribes, a
whirlwind is zungar-uzungo.
Now, our people gave several names to these White-skinned
aliens. They called them Wazungu, a word which loosely means
“god” but literally means “people of the dust-devil or the
And, our people were familiar with these Wazungu from the start.
They saw them, and they saw that some-in fact, many-of these
Wazungu carry what appears to be a sphere made of crystal or
glass, a sphere which they always playfully bounce like a ball
in their hands. And when a force of warriors tries to capture a
Wazungu, the Wazungu throws this ball into the air, catches it
in his hands, and then disappears.
But, some Wazungu were captured by Africans in the past and
forcibly kept prisoner in the villages of chiefs, and in the
caves of shamans. The person who had captured the Muzungu, as he
is called in singular, had to make sure that he kept the
glass-globe well-hidden from the Wazungu. So long as he kept the
globe hostage, the Muzungu could not escape.
And when Africans saw the real Europeans, the White men from
Europe, they transferred to them the name Wazungu. Before we met
the people from Europe, we Africans, we had met White-skinned
Wazungu, and we transferred the name Wazungu to the real
Europeans, from the aliens.
Now, in the Zulu language, we call a White man Umlungu. Now, the
word Umlungu means exactly the same as Wazungu, “a god or a
creature which creates a big whirlwind underground”.
In Zaire, called now the Democratic Republic of the Congo, White
people are called Watende or Walende. This, again, means “a god
or a White creature”. And, the word Watende not only is used to
refer to the pink-skinned alien, but is also used to refer to
the field Chitauli. In Zaire, when shamans talk fearfully about
the lords who control the Earth, they refer to them not as
Chitauli, but they refer to them euphemistically as
Watende-wa-muinda - that is, “the White creature which carries a
light” because at night the Chitauli’s forehead eyes glow like
red lights in the dense bush. They glow like the rear lights of
an automobile in the dense bush. So, a Watende-wa-muinda “the
White creature of the light”, that is what the Chitauli are
called in the Democratic Republic of the Congo.
There are over 24 other alien creatures, sir, that we Africans
know about, but I will tell you briefly, now, about only two.
Sir, in the country called Zimbabwe, where I had my encounter in
1959, there is also another creature. This is the most amazing
creature, and I saw it once, and so did several other people,
some Black and some White, who were with me. This creature is a
huge creature, and shaped exactly like a gorilla, but it is
unlike a gorilla, which often walks on its feet, as well as on
its knuckles. The creature I’m talking about, sir, stands about
8 feet or 9 feet high, and is built exactly like a gorilla, but
its body is very powerful. Its shoulders are very wide, it’s
neck is very thick. It is covered with thick, rough fur, like no
other wild animal in Africa.
It is a humanoid creature, with thighs and legs and feet, as
well as arms and hands which look exactly like those of a human
being, only covered with a heavy mat of dark-brown fur. This
creature, sir, is known as Ogo by the people of Zimbabwe. And
schools of people have seen this creature, hundreds over the
many generations. Some of these creatures have been seen right
here in South Africa, in isolated bushy and mountainous places.
And these Ogo are, detail for detail, exactly like what the
Native American people of the Northwestern United States call a
Sasquatch or Bigfoot.
In fact, I say it is the same creature and we have it right here
in southern Africa. It is also exactly the same creature, but
with a totally different skin color, as the one that is seen by
the people of Nepal on the slopes of the Himalaya mountains, the
creature that is called a Yeti.
Now, then, the last creature, sir, a creature which is so well
known in South Africa, and elsewhere in Africa, that if you
mention its name, people smile. It is called a Tokoloshe. Every
African knows what a Tokoloshe is. Some call it Tikoloshe.
It looks like a very nasty looking teddy-bear in appearance, in
that it’s head is like that of a teddy-bear, but it has got a
thick, sharp, bony ridge on top of its head. The ridge goes from
above its forehead to the back of its head, and with this ridge
it can knock down an ox by butting it with its head.
This creature causes the Black people in certain places to raise
their beds on bricks, one brick laid on top of the other one,
about 3 feet above the ground. And you find this all over South
Africa. This Tokoloshe likes to play with children, and has been
seen hundreds of times by school children, in various parts of
South Africa, even in recent times.
Sometimes it will terrorize children by scratching them as they
sleep, leaving long, parallel scratches on a child’s back and
upon a child’s thighs, scratches that become infected and itch
About two years ago, a creature like this terrorized a whole
school of children in Soweto, near Johannesburg. And the school
children called it pinky-pinky. Now, this creature is not only
known in South Africa amongst Black people, it is also known,
sir, amongst Polynesian people of Hawaii, and other islands in
the Pacific. These people lift their huts, their grass houses,
on stilts, to the height exactly that Africans lift their bed.
When you ask a Polynesian, “Why do you built your huts like
this?” The Polynesian will say, “We want to protect ourselves
Now, this is interesting, sir that a creature exactly like the
one seen in South Africa is also seen on some Pacific islands,
and the name by which it is known in the Pacific, Tiki, is very
close to the African word Tikiloshe, or Tokoloshe.
One day I hope to share more of this information with your
readers, but my appeal, again, is this: Please investigate!
Please, let us investigate! Let us stop being too skeptical.
Excessive skepticism is just as dangerous and as evil as
Nobody can tell me that aliens don’t exist. Let someone tell me,
what is the meaning of this hole in my side? Let someone tell
me, why is it that after I had been mated to that strange
creature, in that strange place, my organ of manhood swelled
horribly, and for many years after that I couldn’t make love to
an ordinary woman, properly. Why? If that was a figment of my
imagination, how can a figment of one’s imagination leave you
with scars and cracks on your male organ, some of which have not
healed to this date? Let such people answer me that question.
We must investigate, sir, because there is every sign that the
alien creatures sharing this planet with us are getting
desperate. Why? Because, you see, there is a great fight shaping
up, and anyone who thinks deeply about such things can see this
What am I talking about? Sir, until 30 or 40 years ago, very few
people cared about the environment. Very few people were
concerned about the destruction of the rain forests in Africa
and elsewhere. Very few people were concerned when White
hunters, who, at that time were regarded as heroes, massacred
Africa’s animals in the thousands. Very few people were
concerned when the great nations of the world, such as the
United States, Russia, Britain, and France, openly tested
nuclear weapons in many parts of the world.
Today there are people who would spit at a big-game hunter if he
showed himself in a hotel and announced what he was. Today a
big-game hunter is no longer looked upon as a hero, but rather
as a murderer. Today there are men and women, Black and White,
who are prepared to risk their lives to save trees, to save
animals, and to stop the insanity of testing nuclear weapons.
Sir, what does this tell you? It tells you that, after many
thousands of years of being dominated by alien creatures, human
beings are starting to fight back. Human beings are starting to
care about the world in which they live and in which they find
themselves. But, the aliens, the Chitauli, the Mantindane
them what you will - are not going to take that lying down. They
are going to punish us, as they did centuries before.
The aliens once destroyed a nation whose name has come down to
us Africans as the nation of Amariri. It is said that the
of Amariri, this fabulous country which we believed lay beyond
the setting of the Sun, were refusing to do what the Chitauli
were telling them to do.
The kings, at that time, were refusing to sacrifice their
children to the Chitauli. They were refusing to make war on
fellow human-beings, in order to sustain the Chitauli, with
their god’s image.
It is said that the Chitauli brought down a fire from Heaven.
They took fire from the Sun itself and they used it to burn that
great civilization away. They caused earthquakes and tidal waves
and destroyed the great civilization of the Red people of the
long green hair, who are said to have been the first people ever
to be created on this Earth. It is said that the Chitauli
allowed only a few surviving people to escape the destruction of
Amariri, and that they are prepared to do this again in the very
I’m worried about what is going to happen in other countries in
the world. All these earthquakes, which have caused the
destruction of human life in the Middle East and in parts of
Africa and India, why does my heart feel frightened when I read
about all this? These earthquakes are happening with unnatural
regularity now, in Egypt, in Armenia, and one of these
earthquakes was so powerful, it went right through the planet
Earth and caused a very sacred rock in Namibia, a rock known as
the Finger of God, which has been standing for tens of thousands
of years, to collapse in a heap of rubble. And when that rock
collapsed, I received many worried letters from sangomas who
believed that because this rock had fallen, then the end of the
world was very, very near.
Is there a question, please?
Martin: I read your poem, your pledge. In your pledge you
mention the name Jabulon. Can you explain who that is?
Credo Mutwa: Jabulon, sir, is a very strange god. He is supposed
to be the leader of the Chitauli. He is a god, to my great
surprise, which I find certain groups of White people,
especially, worshipping. We have known about Jabulon for many,
many centuries, we Black people. But I am surprised that there
are White people who worship this god, and these people, amongst
them are people whom many have blamed for all the things that
have happened on this Earth, namely, the Freemason people. We
believe that Jabulon is the leader of the Chitauli. He is the
Old One. And one of his names, in the African language, sir, is
Umbaba-Samahongo - “the lord king, the great father of the
terrible eyes” - because we believe that Jabulon has got one eye
which, if he opens it, you die if he looks at you.
It is said, sir, the Umbaba ran away from an eastern land during
a power struggle with one of his sons, and he took refuge in
Central Africa, where he hides in a cave, deep underground. And
it is an amazing thing, sir, it is said that under the Mountains
of the Moon in Zaire is this great city of copper, of many
thousands of shining buildings. There dwells the god Umbaba or
Jabulon. And this god is waiting for the day when the surface of
the Earth will be cleared of human beings so that he, and his
children, the Chitauli, can come out and enjoy the heat of the
And, one day, sir, I had a very unexpected visit while I was
living in Soweto, near Johannesburg. I was visited by priests
One of these priests, I’m sure you have met him or you know of
him. His name is Akyong Rinpochce. He is one of the leading
Tibetan priests in England who was exiled with the Dalai Lama,
and he visited me one day while I was in my medicinal village in
Soweto. And one of the things that Akyong Rinpochce asked me
was, “Do I know of a secret city which is somewhere in Africa, a
city made of copper?”
I said, “But, Akyong, you are describing the city of Umbaba, the
city of the unseen god, the god who hides underground. How do
you know about this?” And Akyong Rinpochce, who is a very
serious investigator of strange phenomena, told me that at one
time the great Lama left Tibet with a group of followers and
came to Africa searching for this city. And the Lama, and his
followers, were never seen again. They never returned back to
Now, sir, we have got stories in central and southern Africa
about little Yellow men who came to Africa looking for the
of Umbaba, the city from which you cannot return alive. What is
amazing, sir - I don’t know whether this falls within the orbit of
your newspaper, but - there are very, very disturbing stories
which I have followed-up here in South Africa, stories which
make no sense to me.
(Break for a few minutes.)
Credo Mutwa: Hello.
Martin: Yes, Credo. May I just say that I am very appreciative
of your taking this time to talk with me, and I realize it’s
Credo Mutwa: I appreciate the honor that you are doing me, much
more than you realize. And I know how White people often treat
anyone who talks on the subject that I am talking about, as
Sir, I really shouldn’t be exposing myself to public ridicule,
as I am, but, our people ARE DYING! Not only do we have problems
with drugs in southern Africa, not only do we have problems with
crime in my country, which is getting a thousand times more
vicious than it ever was before, not only do we have problems
with AIDS, sir, but we also have got weird problems which often
come our way-problems which, when you study them together, show
you that something unearthly is going on in southern Africa. Can
I share this thing with you, sir?
Martin: Yes, please.
Credo Mutwa: Sir, according to my culture it is very rude for
one man simply to talk to another man without giving that other
man the chance to talk back to him. So, out of respect of your
paper and of you, I would like to ask you, in your country, the
United States, do you have strange stories about underground
structures which are built-because we are having similar stories
in South Africa, and with us they are having very strange
Martin: Yes, there are many stories of underground - we call them
underground bases, actually, and, in fact, in the newspaper I
was associated with earlier, we published an entire edition on
exposing the locations of those underground bases. Not only
Credo Mutwa: There is exactly the same thing here in South
Africa, and there has been for a number of years. I was able to
confirm one to my own satisfaction, but I have failed to confirm
others. You see, sir, a man like me, who walks two worlds - the
African mystical world, as well as the modern, down-to-Earth
world - must be careful of what he says. But, about 5 years ago, I
was living in the little town of Masikeng, a very historical
town which was the site of a famous siege by the Boors, in the
war of 1899-1902.
It was in this town, sir, that the Scout movement, the Boy Scout
movement, was founded by Captain Powell. I’m sure you’ve heard
about him. But, while I was living in Masinkeng, a number of
people came to me, ordinary tribesmen and women, sir, some of
them totally illiterate. These people complained to me that
their relatives had mysteriously disappeared. They wanted me to
divine where their relatives have gone to. And, I asked these
people, all of whom did not know each other, where did your
These people had told me an incredible story, and it was this:
Not far from Masikeng there is a famous place which I’m sure you
have heard about, a place which we call the Las Vegas of South
Africa. This is the famous casino/hotel complex called Sun City.
Credo Mutwa: I was told that under Sun City strange mining
operations were in progress, deep underground, and that many of
the Africans who worked in those mines disappeared and never
returned home again, although their paychecks kept on being sent
to their family. The men never returned home, as ordinary miners
Now, I looked into this phenomenon, sir, and, like a fool, I
refused to believe it. And then more stories came my way,
because when an African is in deep trouble, he or she always
looks for a sangoma to find the reason behind the trouble.
Sir, the other story was this, and this one I found to be a
shocking truth, that there was construction across the border
from South Africa, in the land known as Botswana. There, the
Americans were working with African labor, who had been sworn to
secrecy. The Americans were building there a secret airport
which can take modern jet fighters. Now, I couldn’t believe
this. Again, I was told that many had mysteriously disappeared
there-ordinary tribesmen, sir, not even educated Black people;
ordinary workers have gone missing. And when their relatives try
to find out where they had gone, they are met with stone-cold
Now, I wanted to have a look at this thing, and one thing that
made me act was that a strange story swept through South Africa,
that a South African jet aircraft, a jet fighter, had shot down
a flying saucer. And the jet fighter had been scrambled from
this secret base.
Now, sir, I decided to investigate because my credibility as a
shaman and as a sangoma was at stake. I went to Botswana. It was
very easy. You can still cross through the wire and get into
that country. The borders are not as heavily sealed in certain
places as many people would think.
I went there with some friends and I found that there was such a
base in Botswana, not underground, but on the surface. It is an
aircraft base, but Black people are afraid of even being seen
near there because it is said that you will disappear if you get
too close to the place, and the man who took us there didn’t
want to come near that place. I studied it from far away, and it
does exist, and the man said if we got any nearer to the place,
we would disappear. Which is a very odd thing, sir, because
there are many military bases all over South Africa, and in
Botswana, but this particular one fills the local people with
deep terror. Why this would be so, I’m still struggling to find
out, even now, because there are too many strange things going
on in my country, and they are affecting the lives of many of
our people very badly indeed.
Now, there is another thing, sir: It is that one of the things
that the Chitauli like to do in their underground caves, where
many fires are always kept ablaze, we are told, is that when a
Chitauli gets sick and starts to lose a large area of skin on
his body, it is said that there is a disease that the Chitauli
suffer from which causes them to lose large areas of their skin,
leaving only raw flesh.
When the Chitauli gets sick this way, a young girl, a virgin, is
usually kidnapped by the servant of the Chitauli and is brought
to the underground place. There the girl is bound, hand and
foot, and wrapped in a golden blanket, and is forced to lie next
to the Chitauli, the sick Chitauli, week after week, being well
fed and well cared for, but kept bound hand and foot, and only
released at certain times to relieve herself. It is said that
after the sick Chitauli shows signs of getting better, then the
human girl is manipulated into trying to escape. She is given a
chance to escape, a chance which is really not a chance. Then,
when the girl escapes, she runs, but she is pursued over a long
distance underground by flying creatures which are made of
metal, and she is recaptured when she reaches the height of fear
Then she is laid on an altar, usually a rough rock, flat on top.
Then, she is cruelly sacrificed, sir, and her blood is drunk by
the sick Chitauli, which then recovers. But, the girl must not
be sacrificed until she is very, very, very frightened, because
if she is not frightened, it is said that her blood will not
save the sick Chitauli. It must be the blood of a very
frightened human being, indeed.
Now, this habit of chasing a victim was also practiced by
ordinary African cannibals, sir. In Zulu-land, in the last
century, there were cannibals who used to eat people, and their
descendants, even today, will tell you, if they trust you, that
the flesh of the human being who has been frightened and made to
run over a great distance, while trying to escape, tastes far
better than the flesh of someone who was simply killed.
Now, sir, some time ago here in South Africa - and it is still an
ongoing process - 5 White girls disappeared. They were
school-girls, sir. These school-girls were, every one of them, a
highly talented child - either a child who showed signs of
developing spiritual power, or a child who was a leader of her
class in one particular thought or subject of learning. Five
such children disappeared in South Africa. It was a very big
story in the newspaper and, at one time, White people came to me
and persuaded me to try and trace these children.
And one day a White man brought to me a rubber toy belonging to
a White child who had disappeared. And I took the rubber toy in
my hands and I noticed that the creature’s eyes appeared to
move. It was as if the rubber toy, a toy dinosaur, was about to
burst into tears. I felt very bad, as if I could stand up and
run away. And then I told this White man,
“Listen to me: The
child who held this toy is dead. What are you trying to do to
me? This child is dead. I feel it.”
And the White man, who was a television producer, took the toy,
the school books, and the jersey, and he went away. And, sure
enough, the White school child was found dead, buried in a
shallow grave next to a road.
Now, other people came to me asking for my help in finding their
missing children. Are they dead? Are they alive? Before I could
do anything, sir - at that time I still had a telephone in my
home - my telephone started ringing and people with very angry
voices, White people voices, shouted at me and told me to stop
helping those people. They told me that if I don’t stop, acid
would be thrown into my wife’s face, and that my children would
be murdered, one after the other.
And, sure enough, sure enough, my youngest son was brutally
stabbed, almost to death, one day, by mysterious people whom his
friends later told me had been White-skinned people. And so, I
I am told, reliably, that over 1,000 children disappear in South
Africa, almost every month. And they disappear, never to be seen
again. Many people, especially in the newspaper field, think
that this is the result of child prostitution rackets. But I do
not think so. The children - if you check the history of many of
these children, they were not ordinary street children, sir.
They are school children who stand out in their class, because
of certain subjects at which they are good, or, who stand out in
their class because of thoughts which they are good at.
Not only that, sir, but ordinary women have disappeared this
way, in Masikeng, also, at more or less the same time that the 5
White children disappeared. In Masikeng, two Black school
teachers, female school teachers, disappeared in their car and
were never seen again. But I don’t want to burden you, sir, with
this terrible story.
But let me tell you one last thing: After the disappearance of
the 5 White school children, the police arrested a priest, a
reverend of the White Reform Church, Reverend Van Rooyen. It was
said that it was Van Rooyen who was responsible for the
disappearance of these poor White school kids. And, he had been
assisted by his girlfriend, who hand-picked these children.
Before Van Rooyen could appear in court, a very strange thing
happened. He and his girlfriend were shot in their little
vehicle, a little 4x4 truck. And, after they had been shot, the
truck managed to come to a stop - a thing that a moving truck
never does - and I was told, afterwards, by a White woman who knew
Van Rooyen, that Van Rooyen and his woman had not committed this
crime as the police had said to the newspapers.
They had actually been murdered. Why? Because Van Rooyen was
found with a gunshot wound in his right temple, and yet, all of
the people who knew him knew that he had been a left-handed man.
So, who murdered Van Rooyen and his woman? It is one of the
biggest and the ugliest mysteries in South Africa to date.
There is more, much more along these lines, but I won’t waste
your time with it.
Martin: When we were talking about the Greys, you talked about
the Chitauli. You had described them, the reptilians - now correct
me if I’m wrong - were you describing them as tall, thin,
large-headed, large-eyed beings?
Credo Mutwa: Yes, sir. They are tall. They walk with a - you see,
the Grey aliens walk with a jerking motion, sir, as if there is
something wrong with their legs. But, the Chitauli walk very
gracefully, like trees gently swaying in the wind.
They are tall. They have large heads.
Some of them have got
horns all around their heads. Now, let me express amazement,
there exists - that in one of the films that recently appeared in
South Africa, a Star Wars film, the latest one, shows a
character EXACTLY like a Chitauli, exactly! It’s got horns all
around it’s head. These are the warrior Chitauli.
The royal Chitauli have got no horns around their head, but have
got a darker ridge reaching from above their forehead to their
back. They are very graceful creatures, we are told, sir, but
they have got - their little finger is a claw which is a very
sharp, straight claw, which they use to punch into human noses,
in order to drink human brains in one of their rituals.
Martin: Now, are they fair skinned?
Credo Mutwa: They are not pink skinned. They are white-skinned,
like paper, almost like certain types of cardboard. Their skin
is like that, it is the skin, definitely, of scaly, reptile-like
creatures. Their foreheads are very large, bulging, and they
look highly, highly intelligent.
Martin: Now, it’s been said - I’ve heard that these beings are
very controlling and they thrive on “divide and conquer”.
Credo Mutwa: Yes, they do, sir. They set human being against
human being. I could give you many amusing examples, using some
African language, how the Chitauli are said to have divided
human beings. They like - do you know who they like, sir? They
like religious fanatics.
Credo Mutwa: Ones who are burdened by too much religion are very
popular with the Chitauli.
Martin: Well, now, I can’t help but wonder if the Chitauli are
prevalent in the United States because of the large number of
underground bases. In the United States, alone,
the numbers of
missing children are so astronomically high that the White-slave
trade does not answer those questions.
Credo Mutwa: Yes, sir, I agree. But, I’m sorry, sir, I feel that
it is in Africa that something very funny is designed to happen.
Let me tell you what happened to me, recently, sir. We still
have a little time. I won’t be long, one minute or less.
Martin: No, no - that’s fine.
Credo Mutwa: When I started talking to Mr. David Icke, and it
was (when) Mr. Icke started speaking about me in Cape Town, I
received a visit from 3 White people who pretended to be from
South America. These people told me that something is going to
happen on the 9th of this month, on 9-9-99. They said that this
was going to happen in Lake Titicaca, a place which I once
visited about 2 years ago.
Martin: A very special place.
Credo Mutwa: Yes, sir. And then, these people told me, when we
were speaking - these people, sir, speaking through an
interpreter - told me that Africa is the country where something
is going to happen soon which will decide the fate of all
And then, we parted on very friendly words, sir, but these
people had left me a letter which I did not open until a few
hours after they had left. And in this letter was written that
should not attend David Icke’s talk, and that a strange person
called Alia Czar was watching me. I don’t know who Alia Czar is.
And they said to me - these people had said to me when we met - that
they were under a great lord called Melchizedek. And, after I’d
read this threatening letter, which threatened that if I talked,
my wife, who is sick of cancer in hospital, is going to die if I
talked. Then, I began to wonder. Who were these people?
Then, because I’ve been to South America before, I found that
the Spanish language with which they were speaking was different
from the language, the Spanish which is spoken in South America.
These people were using Spanish from Spain, and not the slightly
weakened Spanish from South America.
Even now, sir, that threat is still hanging over my head and,
may I point out, sir, a strange thing which whoever you will
send to me one day will see for themselves: my wife is sick of
cancer in the hospital, which is the largest hospital in South
Africa, sir. And in one of the x-rays taken of my wife’s womb, a
strange metal device was seen - of a kind which has puzzled
doctors. I spoke to my wife. I asked her, “Who put this object,
which the x-rays have seen, in her womb.”
My wife said nobody had ever touched her, and nobody had ever
inserted anything into her. But this artifact, sir, which is
clearly marked in the x-ray, and is clearly indicated with an
arrow, is first seen in one x-ray plate, disappears for the next
2 plates, and is seen on the 4th plate again. I’ve been
wondering very, very much about this.
No matter what we may think, sir, there are strange things going
on in this world and they require an agent, investigation, and
explanation. What is this strange device, which the doctors
cannot identify, doing inside the uterus of a 65-year-old woman?
My wife is suffering, and I can lose her at any time now,
because I can’t even get her out of hospital. Who put this
device in her uterus, and why? I will never know the answer, not
in this world.
Martin: I’m very sorry to hear about your wife having cancer. I
just lost my mother last year to cancer and I know that is a
very painful struggle.
Credo Mutwa: Yes, sir, it is.
Martin: So, I am very sorry that you are going through that.
Credo Mutwa: Through the training as a Zulu step-son warrior, we
have got something like the Japanese Samuri which we call the
Kaway, which is a Sun warrior. When a Sun warrior, who is
trained like I am, undergoes a terrible experience, he must
channel the pain caused by that experience into cold, battle
anger, in order to overcome the grief he feels.
And, at this moment, sir, I am aggrieved about what is happening
in my country; about what’s happening to my people; about what’s
happening to my wife, who is also my half-sister. You see, ours
is what was called a sacred marriage between a man, a sanusi, a
shaman, and his half-sister. And, the wife I’m about to lose is
my half-sister. Our father is one man, although our mothers were
You know, sir, I feel a cold rage that Africa is being
destroyed. I feel, sir, a cold rage that my people are being
destroyed by forces which, when you study them, you find are
totally alien. And, here, let me share with you, sir, one last
thing, please, which will make your readers understand why I am
feeling what I am feeling now.
As you know, sir, there is AIDS going like a silent fire through
South Africa. And, last year, I found, to my horror, that one of
my six children, my 21-year-old daughter, is HIV positive. Sir,
I feel a cold rage in my heart that we are allowing an alien
disease that came from we know not where, a disease which
anyone, with any thought, realizes was manufactured somewhere in
order to destroy large swaths of humankind.
When I look into my daughter’s eyes, sir, I feel a chill. I’ve
got two daughters, grown-up, young women, and she is the last.
The other one is short and dumpy, and a loving-a lovely African
girl with a big backside and big breasts. But this girl, who is
dying of this disease, is slender, dark-skinned like my mother,
and she is very beautiful, even by European standards - and I
cannot look into my child’s eyes and see what I read there: a
resignation, a why? Why?
If AIDS was a natural disease, sir, I would accept it, because
man must live side-by-side with illness in this world. But a
child, you spend years educating and bringing-up, suddenly being
snuffed-out before your eyes, by a disease made by evil people,
I want to tear somebody’s eyes out for what I’ve seen happening.
I’m sorry, sir.
Martin: I understand.
Credo Mutwa: We must look into this thing. Is there one last
question you would like to ask?
Martin: Yes. I would like to go back to the copper city for a
moment. It would seem that this Jabulon would be the equivalent
of what, in the West, we call Satan. Would you say that?
Credo Mutwa: I think so, yes, sir. He is the chief of the Chitauli. And, like
Satan, he lives in a house underground where
great fires are always lighted, to keep him warm. Because, we
are told, that after the great war they fought with God, they
became cold in their blood and they cannot stand freezing
weather, which is why they require human blood, and also they
require fire always to be kept working where they are.
Martin: Well it’s been said, in the recent video tape that
David Icke has put out, that
the shape-shifting reptilians, in order
to maintain their façade, their cover, their human-like
appearance, they must drink human blood. And there is something
about the blond gene, apparently. Now, I don’t know what...
Credo Mutwa: Yes. Mr. David Icke shared that a little with me,
sir. He told me that, repeatedly, golden-haired people get
sacrificed by the Chitauli, and then I told him, in my turn,
what I know from Africa.
You see, sir, not all Africans have got black hair. There are
Africans who are regarded as very holy, as very sacred. These
are Africans who are born with natural red hair. These Africans
are believed to be very spiritually powerful. Now, in Africa,
such people, albeamers or red-headed Africans, were the most
victims of sacrifice, especially when they were just entering
maturity - whether they were males or females.
Martin: Now, when you were able to see the eyes beneath
alien’s exterior, would you say that those were reptilian beings
underneath that cover?
Credo Mutwa: Yes, sir, exactly. I will tell you why. There is a
snake here in South Africa which is called a Mamba.
Martin: Yes, very deadly.
Credo Mutwa: It is one of the most poisonous snakes that you can
find. It has got eyes EXACTLY like those of a Chitauli and of a
Mantindane. And so has a Python, sir. A crocodile’s eyes are
very ET-looking, and they don’t look as hypnotic and as piercing
as those of a Mamba or a Python. If you can image, sir, the eye
of a Python, magnified about 10 times, then you have got exactly
what a Chitauli’s eyes look like.
Martin: Well, it is said, and I believe this to be true, that
there is a - for lack of a better way of putting it - there is a
between Light and Dark, Good and Evil, on this planet.
Credo Mutwa: Yes. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yes.
Martin: And there certainly is a God in His Universe, a
Light and Justness.
Credo Mutwa: Yes, sir.
Martin: How does your culture, how do you view the intervention
of God through His Hosts, through His Representatives? In all
things there must be a balance, and that includes on planet
Earth - as above, so below. How do you see - for many readers, they
can read about this all, and it sounds very frightening and
very, almost, hopeless - and yet, there certainly is hope. So, I
would like to end this interview on a message of hope.
Credo Mutwa: Yes. Please, sir, there IS hope! Look, first of
all, there IS a God above us. And this God is more real than
most of us believe. God is not a figment of someone’s
imagination. God is not something dreamt-up by old men and old
women in prehistoric times. God exists, sir. But standing
between us and God are creatures who claim to be gods. And these
creatures we must get rid of in order to get closer to God.
Sir, I have lived a long and very strange life, and I can tell
you that there is a God, and He is intervening. However, we see
God’s intervening as slow, but wait: Who would have thought that
less than 30 years ago, not one person cared about the
environment. Who put this sudden Godliness within all of us?
Today, sir, people everywhere in the world are standing up and
fighting for the rights of women and for the rights of children.
Who has put these ideas into our minds? Not the Chitauli, not
any demonic entity, it is God acting in the shadow and making us
strong and able to resist these ugly creatures.
You see, sir, God seems to work slowly in our eyes, because
lives in a time-sphere totally different from our own. God is
there. God is working. And it is God, sir, who, for the first
time in our existence, is making us aware of these things,
making us aware that on this world we are not alone, and that we
must be soul-ly and solely responsible for our actions, and we
must neutralize these alien beings who for years have led us
around in circles.
Human beings have never known any real progress, sir, because
there have been forces that have been stopping us from reaching
our rightful position in the universe, and I mean the Chitauli,
I mean the Mantindane, I mean the Midzimu. We must stop
regarding these creatures as super-human creatures. They are
just parasites who need us more than we need them. And only a
fool will ever deny the fact that we are not the only
intelligent species of being that this planet has produced.
All over Africa there is overwhelming evidence that once there
were gigantic human beings who walked this planet, in the days
of the dinosaur. There are footprints in granite, each one 6
foot long by 3 ½ wide, footprints of mature human beings, sir,
which date back thousands of years, millions of years. Where did
these giants go to? Who knows; the dinosaurs may have produced
an intelligent race, a race which deceives us into thinking that
it comes from the stars, when in fact it is part of this planet
on which we live.
There is hope, and the hope is very bright. A Christ-child is
being born in all of us, but like all deaths, the death of the
Light-child (the death of the old-self prior to transformation
into “Christness”) is going to be attended by great danger, as
the enemy is going to be driven into desperation. The enemy will
make mistakes and we will conquer him in God’s sacred name. That
is what I believe, sir, and that is what I’m going to hold-on
believing until my last breath.
Martin: And that is a perfect place to end this - on that thought,
on that note.
Now, let me just say, just for you, since 1974, I have seen
many, many spaceships, close-up (though not inside nor by
abduction). I have experienced-in the mountains of southern
Oregon-I have come across Bigfoot footprints...
Credo Mutwa: Ah-hah!
Martin: ...by a river where I was camping. I have heard the
Bigfoot in the mountains at night. I have heard their cries...
Credo Mutwa: Ya-ya! You see?
Martin: ...from one mountain to another. These are things I have
experienced. I KNOW these things are real!
Credo Mutwa: Yes, sir. Then, I speak to a fellow warrior, and I
say, “We shall overcome”, as the American Marines used to sing
during the Second World War.
Martin: Yes, and during the Vietnam War.
Credo Mutwa: We will overcome, we will overcome, but skeptics
must stop laughing, and fools must stop calling these aliens,
god. There is only ONE God, and He or She or It is the One who
created us, and not some impostor who came from somewhere else
to hide behind us and to drink our children’s blood. Amen, sir.
Martin: Yes, absolutely right. Credo, please know that I deeply
appreciate what you have done and the courage of just speaking
frankly. It’s past time to hold onto these things, and it’s time
to just speak The Truth. And for those who don’t believe or even
consider possibilities, well, it’s just too bad.
Credo Mutwa: Exactly, and also to confront people with the fact
that there is no reason to fear anything. If we go from a
perspective of making information available that should be
available to every single person on this blooming planet, why
the hell are they trying to threaten you to keep quiet? If it’s
so ridiculous, let it be. Stop assassinating and ridiculing and
destroying people by churning-up fear. This is the perspective I
come from, and I’m sure David, as well, and obviously you, as
well, do too. I don’t have fear anymore.
It’s time that we speak out and that we acquire a
consciousness - a global, common consciousness - and get this thing
to the front. Thank you, so much, I really appreciate it.
Martin: Absolutely right. Thank you.